Thread: debtfreemummy v lloyds tsb loan ppi

Hi

I took out a £12,000 loan with Lloyds TSB in April last year. I told the girl in my local branch that I had cover elsewhere for PPI, but she told me that I had to have the PPI on the loan otherwise I couldn't have it! Now, after finding this site I know that's not true!

So, have been trying to get it cancelled & the money refunded (using template letters on here), and of course they're saying no. (I currently pay £320 pm of which £62 is PPI)

Anyway, have just received this letter from them:-
" ...as stated in my previous letter I am unable to agree that you were badly advised. You signed and dated the loan agreeing to the sale of the loan protection insurance policy.

However, as you are a valued customer of Lloyds TSB, as a gesture of goodwill, I am prepared on this occasion, to agree to rebate the premium from the date of your complaint of £1968.01. This rebate will be made on the condition that the policy will be cancelled and no further cover will be provided. You will be unable to make any further claims under the policy irrespective of the nature of the claim. If you accept this refund the amount will be credited to your loan account. The monthly repayments of £320 will continue as under the terms of the loan the amount of the payments cannot be reduced.

If you wish to reduce the monthly payments, then the loan will have to be rescheduled & only your branch can agree to this..."

Ok, so my problem is they've confused me (not hard these days!):grin: but I guess that's their aim anyway, with all the letters they send anyway so we give up.

What do I do now - I want the payments to go down to the £258 they should be (£320 less £62 PPI per month), for the PPI to be totally cancelled and for a refund of the amount of PPI I've paid so far.

My last letter to them was an lba - do I go on to the court step next? is it the same as for bank charges - can anyone point me in the right direction?

Many thanks for any help & advice

Sharon x

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Hi Sharon,
Another Lloyds one..My Fav..lol Just a couple of things that spring to mind straight away here..

1) On your loan agreement it should state the cost of the PPI policy plus the interest that will be charged on the PPI. This would be the total that I would be looking for them to refund in these circumstances.

2) If they pay a rebate of £1968.01 into your loan account and do not decrease the monthly payments then the loan term should obviously be shorter as a lump sum has been repayed into the loan (the lump sum they are offering is equal to approx 6 Months payments if you get what I mean).

This is a well known Lloyds tactic too, they tried that one with me but I stuck to my guns and demanded that the refund for the mis-sold PPI was paid back into my current account where my monthly payments were taken from. They did in the end agree to this.

I did have a nice long Lloyds PPI posting on here but after the Tonight with Trevor McDonald Programm and some correspondence from their CEO and Solicitors The posting was removed from Here for the sake of CAG, Im still in discussions with them over this too and the fight is still ongoing and will be throwing something else their way within the next week or so..lol.

Good luck and if you need any help / Advice just shout or PM me..

Ian

Hi Ian
Many thanks for your reply. The PPI on the loan agreement says 2874.92 plus interest = £3717.60 - is this the amount I should be asking for? Is it all paid out at the beginning then and not monthly as I have thought?

I've started a letter to them just to find out how they've come up with the figures they have. Does this sound ok to you (& any others who are reading)

"Firstly, to clarify again, that I do not refute the fact that I signed the agreement for the PPI part of the loan that I took out with you. The fact that I was told by a member of your staff that I had to take out the PPI on top of the loan or I would not get the loan is where I was badly advised, as this is blatant mis-selling.

With regards to the amount of £1,968.01 that you have stated in your letter, I would like to know the following information as this has not been made clear:-
- How is this £1,968.01 made up exactly
- If this amount was refunded to my account, please confirm the new last payment date of the loan (originally 60 months)
- How can the amount of £320 still be the monthly payment amount when you are saying the PPI payment (£62 per month) would be cancelled. According to my loan agreement, the loan payment is £258 and not £320, as this amount would still include the PPI payment of £62. This would not be a re-scheduling of the loan as this amount has already been agreed by yourselves in black and white. Please explain in full how you still have £320.
- If I agree to taking an amount in repayment from you I would want it confirmed that this can be paid directly into the current account that it was taken from and not the loan account ... "

many thanks for all help

Sharon x

Hi Sharon,
you could use the following letter, you may need to change parts of it though,

Customer Care Department
Lloyds TSB Insurance
Tredegar Park
Newport
South Wales
NP10 8SB

Re: account -------------- Your Ref ------------------

letter before action

Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing to reject the offer of a refund of £1968.01 which was made to me in your letter dated --------------.

The policy involved was mis sold to me by a member of your staff at a time I was in financial difficulties and I was pressurised to take the policy otherwise the loan would not be approved.

My request is for the refund of the whole policy cost of £2874.92 plus interest of £842.68 making a total of £3717.60 The offer of £1968.01 is far from acceptable but I would accept this figure as part settlement and will continue with court action to recover the remainder. Over the period of the loan the policy will have cost me £3717.60. I would continue to pay the loan at the agreed monthly figure until the end of it’s term.
Your offer is £1749.59 below the actual cost and I can only see this as being an unlawful penalty charge. The policy was sold in a deceitful manner by a member of your staff and this matter has also been discussed with the FSA and a complaint form has been filled out for the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I would also like to bring to your attention the FSA principles for the “Treating customers fairly – towards fair outcomes for consumers .

Principle 7 “A Firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading”.

Principle 9 “A firm must take reasonable care to ensure the suitability of its advice and discretionary decisions for any customer who is entitled to rely upon its judgement”.

Your responsibilities
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.


What I require

A refund in the form of a cheque for the sum of £3717.60

I require repayment in full of this money and. If you do not comply fully within 7 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.


I will also Submit the completed complaint form regarding this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service.



Yours faithfully,

Many, many thanks for that Ian
A letter has gone out to them today - will see what they say!

Sharon x

Hi Marcelle

I'm not entirely sure to be honest about the single premium part - all my info is at home & I'm at work, but I'll double check it all tonight.

I'm sure I read somewhere on my letters about them not being able to cancel it - but again will have to check. But they did state in their last letter that if I want to change my monthly repayments down to the £268 as stated on my loan agreement (the £320 I pay includes £62 PPI which is stated as a separate amount), then "the loan will have to be re-scheduled & only your local branch can agree this". Which I assume just means they want to get as much money out of me per month even though it should be paid off earlier.


I also received a letter from them this morning after me sending the letter above, saying :-

"I am sorry you are unhappy with my decision Please note that this decision is final and as you are unhappy you must refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I am sorry that I cannot help you further"

Is this just a basic letter - or have I upset the lady at the customer care department?
As my last letter was an lba, I go along the court route next don't I?
Or do I have to contact the FSA first with a complaint? (any links for this if I do?)

Many thanks for any help

Sharon x

Originally Posted by debtfreemummy

Hi Marcelle

I'm not entirely sure to be honest about the single premium part - all my info is at home & I'm at work, but I'll double check it all tonight.

I'm sure I read somewhere on my letters about them not being able to cancel it - but again will have to check. But they did state in their last letter that if I want to change my monthly repayments down to the £268 as stated on my loan agreement (the £320 I pay includes £62 PPI which is stated as a separate amount), then "the loan will have to be re-scheduled & only your local branch can agree this". Which I assume just means they want to get as much money out of me per month even though it should be paid off earlier.


I also received a letter from them this morning after me sending the letter above, saying :-

"I am sorry you are unhappy with my decision Please note that this decision is final and as you are unhappy you must refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I am sorry that I cannot help you further"

Is this just a basic letter - or have I upset the lady at the customer care department?
As my last letter was an lba, I go along the court route next don't I?
Or do I have to contact the FSA first with a complaint? (any links for this if I do?)

Many thanks for any help

Sharon x

Hello Sharon,

There letter is just standard. They will always deny, even when they give you what they owe you

It will do know harm to complain to the FSA and OFT or ring them for advise. Home page : FSA Money made clear
Office of Fair Trading - making markets work well for consumers

Your options now are to go through the Financial Ombudsman or court

I've sent off my completed complaint form to the Financial Ombudsman today and a copy of all the letters, etc from Lloyds TSB.

Has anyone gone/or going this route rather than going to court?
And did you get a good response from them?
How long do you reckon before I get a reply?

Sharon x

OMG - I THINK I'VE WON BACK THE FULL AMOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! :o (happy but in shock that I've actually got a decent response!)

I sent my details off to the fos and received a letter saying they were investigating my claim. Yesterday I received a letter from LTSB saying:-

" The FOS has recently contact me about your concerns around the sale of your Loan PPI with LTSB. I have investigated your concerns in line with our "treating the customer fairly strategy" and I am writing to you with our new final response.

Background
You have purchased a loan from Lloyds tsb of £12,000 over 60mths and your loan was protected with Optional Loan Protection Insurance. On 21 Feb 2007 a complaint was received at LTSB insurance in relation to the sale of this insurance policy. Y have advised LTSB that you were pressured into purchasing the optional PPI and that this loan was a condition of your loan.

Investigation
I have investigated the evidence within our sales files and I can find nothing to suggest that this policy has been mis-sold to you. However I am concerned that you still feel as though we have not resolved your complaint, you are a valued customer of LTSB insurance and so I would like to make the following offer to you.

Goodwill offer
As you are a valued customer of LTSB and you have confirmed that you do not want your PPI I would like to refund your PPI premium of £2,874.92 plus interest paid on this amount to date. This offer is made to you in Full and final settlement of your complaint with the FOS and LTSB insurance.

If you would like to accept this offer then please sign the enclosed acceptance slip and return to me. On receipt of your acceptance I will arrange for the payment of £2,874.92 plus interest to be sent to your loan account. Your loan term will reduce and your loan agreement will be repaid sooner than originally agreed.

Please note that if you accept this goodwill offer then all cover under the insurance contract will cease and your loan will remain unprotected for the life of the balance.

LTSB insurance do not hold any control over monthly repayments, therefore we are unable to arrange for your loan to be rescheduled. If this is something you would like to arrange then you will need to speak to your bank. If you would like LTSB bank to decide on whether they can arrange this then it may be helpful for you to take a copy of this letter to them."

Ok - so I've won but I'm still so wary that they've done this with seemingly no strings attached! Or are there??? Can anyone think of anything they may be saying "between the lines" or have omitted that I need to ask them?

Before I sign this (obviously I want my money back!) I have a couple of things I have thought of that I'd like cleared up:-

1. Can I ask them to pay this money into my current account instead? (so I can then decide whether to put it ALL into my loan account or not as I have thought I may put £2,000 in there & keep the £874 out for other things)

2. Can I get them to confirm that the PPI was actually cancelled after my letter in February as originally asked and not when they receive my signed form

3. Can I get them to confirm that nothing else will change - like the APR, etc and then when the final date of payment would now be with the increased amount paid (from February!) as it was originally 60 months

Plus, do I need to send a copy of any response I make to the FOS as well?

many thanks
Sharon x

Hi
I've drafted this letter, does it sound ok? I've got a fax number too, is it ok to send it to them there as well as in the post (I thought I might get a quicker response!)

" With reference to your letter dated ...

I thank you for your offer of £2874.92 plus interest, being the full amount paid for Loan protection insurance against a loan i took out with ltsb bank in april 2006, which was mis-sold to me.

Before I sign any papers from you, I would like the following points clarified and updated:-
1. Please confirm that the full amount of money (£2874.92 plus interest) will be paid into my current account from which it was taken, with LTSB bank and not my loan account.
2. Please confirm that the PPI was cancelled as requested after my first lettter dated Feb 2007
3. Please confirm that the APR on the loan will stay the same
4. Please confirm details on the loan now that the PPI has been cancelled, including the new term of the loan (originally 60 months) and the date the loan will now finish, due to the extra money being paid into the loan account from March 2007.

I can be contacted at my home address, or by email at the above address. I look forward to hearing from you."

Does that sound ok? Would I need to sign anything else from them - i.e a new loan agreement, etc to confirm the new amounts, etc?
Many thanks for any help

Sharon x

Hiya,
you should not need to sign any new agreement, They should be able to give you a full Breakdown of when the loan will now be paid off in full as when they pay the PPI refund back into the account the amount owed will reduce. Your Monthly payments would stay the same but the length of the loan would be reduced.

The offered me the same, But I asked and eventually got the PPI cost plus interest Paid back into my current account.

And it is OK to send your reply by FAX, I did and it did spead up the process.

Good Luck and well done..

Ian

Originally Posted by reidnet

Hiya,
you should not need to sign any new agreement, They should be able to give you a full Breakdown of when the loan will now be paid off in full as when they pay the PPI refund back into the account the amount owed will reduce. Your Monthly payments would stay the same but the length of the loan would be reduced.

The offered me the same, But I asked and eventually got the PPI cost plus interest Paid back into my current account.

And it is OK to send your reply by FAX, I did and it did spead up the process.

Good Luck and well done..


Ian

Hello I agree with Reidnet

Before you agree to accept the amount they are going to refund you. Ask for the interest as well. I was very cheeky and also asked for contractual interest on top which they gave me

I also told them that because it was my money that they mis-lead me into giving them, that I now wished to control it. I did not want it to be taken of the loan amount. They sent me a cheque

Hiya Hellhasnofury,
Just a quick question, Do you hire out that Killer ferret for contract Hits..lol If so can you keep December Free please..lol

Ian

Thank you so much Ian & Hellhasnofury.
I've sent a fax off to them today - the woman left me a telephone message this morning, so hope she still has my file on her desk - ready to go!!!
Will let you know the outcome
Sharonx

Hi
I've had a response to my letter as below and need a little help if someone can help me:-

"Thank you for your letter ... etc, etc,...
I will respond to your questions in order
1. I have checked that your loan account is up to date, and as there are no arrears I am happy for these funds to be paid into your bank account.

2. Your PPI is still in place and will remain in place until we have resolved your complaint. We always try to resolve your complaint before going ahead and cancelling your policy. You were offered a partial refund which you declined, and so I have agreed to offer you a full refund of insurance premiums as a gesture of goodwill. If you accept this offer then all cover under the insurance will cease as detailed.

3. My offer of a refund of insruance will not affect your loan APR in any way.

4. As you have requested your refund of PPI to be paid into your bank account instead of your loan account, your loan agreement will not change in any way should you accept this offer. My original offer was to refund the money back to your loan account, if you had accepted this offer then the loan balance would have reduced and I could have refunded the interest paid on the insurance premium to put you back in the position you would have been had you not purchased PPI

Since you have now amended the original offer and requested the funds to your bank account you will still be borrowing £2874 from ltsb bank as part of your loan agreement and therefore I will not be deducting this amount from your loan balance.

As this amount will not be deducted from your loan balance you will still be charged interest on this sum of money, my offer of £2874 will be paid into your bank account without interest and the policy will be cancelled. "


Ok, my questions are,
1. how can I get them to cancel the PPI from when I first wrote to them earlier in the year (or should that actually from the beginning of the loan term last year as I never wanted or asked for it in the first place & they made me take it?????) - and NOT when they decide to cancel it, - which will probably be sometime in 2010 by the time they get their fingers out of their a*ses!!! - therefore meaning all the money I've paid so far should have been taken just off the £12,000 I borrowed & none going towards the PPI? (meaning £320 is paid towards loan each month, instead of £268 plus £62 towards PPI - after all £62 per month adds up!)

2. If they're paying me back the money they took when I didn't need it why the hell aren't they paying the interest back too?! How do I get them to do this, when they've offered it in their first letter?!!

3. Why, if they're refunding the amount, am I still then being charged on my loan account for the PPI - if they're giving it back then they shouldn't have taken it in the first place - I spoke to her and she said that the loan will still be for the £12,000 PLUS the PPI amount because THEY'RE LTSB Insurance and not LTSB bank! (Aaaaarrrrggghhhh !)

4. I would prefer to have the money in my bank account rather than them deciding where it should go (could really do with part of the money right now - although I may decide to put some of it into paying off part of the £12,000 I originally borrowed!). Or is it not worth the hassle & should I just tell them to put it back in my loan account & have it taken off my loan?! (I don't really want THEM to decide what happens to MY money!)

Does anyone have any ideas on what I could say in a letter to them - or is there a template letter for this I could change to suit my circumstances?

Any help would be great - thanks
Sharon x

Hi Sharon,
Hopefully I can help clear up some of your Questions here, When Lloyds put the PPI onto your loan (Ipressume a cost of £2874), The full amount would have been paid to the Insurance company.

Lloyds will then have added the £2874 onto the amount that you borrowed and of course interest would be charged on that amount.

It looks like they have offered you the full policy cost back, What they are offering is basically refund the purchase of the Policy and give the Money back to you in cash.

If you had the £2874 repaid into your loan account, this would reduce the term of loan bu a fair bit, You would also pay less Interest on the whole loan as Lloyds TSB calculate the Interest on a dail basis.

It is really up to you if you want the £2874 as a cash amount that you can use now, or Have the lenght of your loan reduced by around 10-12 months.

Hopefully you Understand What Im saying..lol .. Well it is a bit late and my head is buzzing..

Ian

Sharon, what was the final outcome of this please. Has everything been settled now?

Originally Posted by papadak

hi i am going to pursue Lloyds tsb as I have been charged PPI on my loan. How easy is is to get hold of a copy of a loan agreement?

Papadak, send an SAR enclosing £10.00 asking for copies of the loan agreement, ppi documents etc. The company will have 40 days to respond with the information you request. Have you started your own thread on this. You will get far more advice if you do.