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I am starting this thread on the advice of a more experienced member (thank you Welshman).
I am awaiting January's charges and then sending in my preliminary approach for repayment. I would gratefully receive any information that would assist me from those with direct experience of dealing with Lloyds TSB.
One particular question is where I send my letter to? My request for data just went to their head office in London. Do I do the same again? or maybe customer services? I also read somewhere of someone E-mailing in their preliminary approach. If you can do this I would be interested to know how.
Although I am very focused on my preliminary approach I would also love to hear any other helpful information about any aspect of the coming battle.
I am starting this thread on the advice of a more experienced member (thank you Welshman).
I am awaiting January's charges and then sending in my preliminary approach for repayment. I would gratefully receive any information that would assist me from those with direct experience of dealing with Lloyds TSB.
One particular question is where I send my letter to? My request for data just went to their head office in London. Do I do the same again? or maybe customer services? I also read somewhere of someone E-mailing in their preliminary approach. If you can do this I would be interested to know how.
Although I am very focused on my preliminary approach I would also love to hear any other helpful information about any aspect of the coming battle.
Hya Gavin, good advice from Welshman, if you look around the Lloyds forum you;ll find posters who are at the same stage as yourself and it's good to link up with them to encourage each other on.
I've put a link in to my thread, if you get time give it a read, it might spur you on.
Good luck mate http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...h-soaring.html
Freebird
1/6/06 request charges
16/6/06 received charges
18/6/06 first request for refund
3/7/06 "No" letter from bank
13/7/06 LBA
7/08/06 handed claim to court
10/8/06 court stamped as date of issue
24/8/06 deemed to be served
25/8/06 Sechiari filed acknowledgement of service
6/9/06 defence served
9/9/06 copy of defence and AQ received by me
25/9/06 deadline for AQ submission
25/9/06 call Sechiari confirm safe receipt of my AQ
26/9/06 received copy AQ from Sechiari
29/9/06 letter to SCM to say "you want 1 month to settle, so settle"
18/10/06 after "strained communications"and how !
verbal offer of full settlement with conditions
communications rejecting conditions from me
5/11/06 received letter offering settlement with conditions
7/11/06 sent fax rejecting conditions etc
14/11/06 unconditional settlement in bank and how !
It doesn't really matter where you send the letter to as it will reach the right department eventually. But....
Customer Service Recovery Centre Lloyds TSB
125 Colmore Row
Birmingham
B3 3SF
seems to be the department who deal with the process initially so it would probably be quickest to send it to them.
The best advice I can give is read through the current threads in the Lloyds forum as well as check out the successes. Prepare yourself for a long haul but keep at it. If you want to see how nasty Lloyds can get then check out our thread Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB. We have posted all of the letters we have had from them and you will see the kind of tactics they may use to put you off.
It's definitely worth spending as much time as you can getting familiar with how theyr eact at each stage, and it will probably be worth noting that a new tactic they seem to be using is a goodwill gestureoffer of around £750 which they instantly credit to your account. This is obviously an attempt at getting people to quit but don't be fooled.
Good luck. It will be a long wait but entirely worth it.
Lucid
Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB *Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded) Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65
*All settled in full - 6/2/07
*Hearings - 7/2/07
*Prelims sent - 9/8/06
_______ GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages
1/6/06 request charges
16/6/06 received charges
18/6/06 first request for refund
3/7/06 "No" letter from bank
13/7/06 LBA
7/08/06 handed claim to court
10/8/06 court stamped as date of issue
24/8/06 deemed to be served
25/8/06 Sechiari filed acknowledgement of service
6/9/06 defence served
9/9/06 copy of defence and AQ received by me
25/9/06 deadline for AQ submission
25/9/06 call Sechiari confirm safe receipt of my AQ
26/9/06 received copy AQ from Sechiari
29/9/06 letter to SCM to say "you want 1 month to settle, so settle"
18/10/06 after "strained communications"and how !
verbal offer of full settlement with conditions
communications rejecting conditions from me
5/11/06 received letter offering settlement with conditions
7/11/06 sent fax rejecting conditions etc
14/11/06 unconditional settlement in bank and how !
I have been reading Mindzai and Lucid's thread about charging compound interest. I would like to follow this route. The banks have been rinsing me for years and at this point I would like to take them for every possible penny, more on principle than a desire to get rich. There is, as always, a number of issues that I need your advice on......
1. The charging of 29.85% will mean that I am owed more that £5000. As I understand it my claim can only go through small claims if it is under £5000. Taking this into account is the charging of the higher interest rate prudent in my case? Does going out of the small claims arena open a massively complex can of worms that is more than I can realistically handle? (I = a simple soul who really does not understand accounts and law courts but is willing to learn).
2. Finally I would like general opinions on the validity of charging compound interest and any advice from people who may also be following route. Is there any precedent of the banks paying so far? Is it more likely to get thrown out by a judge?
Thank you for your time and any help is gratefully received.
Help with compounded contratual interest - opinions needed.
I have been reading Mindzai and Lucid's thread about charging contractual compounded interest. I would like to follow this route. The banks have been rinsing me for years and at this point I would like to take them for every possible penny, more on principle than a desire to get rich. There is, as always, a number of issues that I need your advice on......
1. The charging of 29.85% contractual interest will mean that I am owed more that £5000. As I understand it my claim can only go through small claims if it is under £5000. Taking this into account is the charging of the higher interest rate prudent in my case? Does going out of the small claims arena open a massively complex can of worms that is more than I can realistically handle? (I = a simple soul who really does not understand accounts and law courts but is willing to learn).
2. Finally I would like general opinions on the validity of charging contractual compounded interest and any advice from people who may also be following this route. Is there any precedent of the banks paying so far? Do you think it more likely to get thrown out by a judge or do you think that the principle of contractual reciprocity is one that is as strong as it seems (to a legal ignoramus who believes in socialism, justice and..... and..... I will shut up as I am starting to sound like an effing Marvel comic).
Let me know.
Thank you for your time and any help is gratefully received.
Re: Help with compounded contratual interest - opinions needed.
Hi Gavin,
The benefit of the small claims court is that you are not liable for costs should you lose. Whereas in the fast track or mercentile courts you are. I have seen it advised many times that in some way it's better to be allocated to one of those two courts because the banks are even less likely to want to go to court over it for fear of setting a precedent. However you have to go with your own instinct. So far nobody with Lloyds has had to go to court but you do have to be prepared for that possibility - no matter which court you're allocated to.
I don't think I've seen any Lloyds cases that have been settled with contractual interest yet, but as you know we are in the process and the end of our case is very near. The only thing we have heard on it is in a settlement offer letter to Mindzai from SC&M in which they say the bank will not entertain 29.85% interest. But they are going to have to pay up otherwise we are turning up to the court. Of course if you do go to court and the bank doesn't turn up, the Judge may decide that contractual interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate is too excessive - but we will have tried. I personally dont think the idea will get thrown out by a Judge, afterall contractual interest is a form of interest you can claim in court - as referred to in A small claims guide. It's just a matter of whether they agree you are entitled to the higher amount or not. It's a good idea (when you get to that stage) to the authorised borrowing rate of interest in the alternative, and statutory interest in the alternative. This would be at the discretion of the Judge and it means you will get awarded some form of interest, rather than completely losing out.
Good luck with your claim. Lucid
Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB *Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded) Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65
*All settled in full - 6/2/07
*Hearings - 7/2/07
*Prelims sent - 9/8/06
_______ GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages
So I have gone away and done some research. I have decided not to claim for 29.85% AER compounded interest. After reading some of Patricia Pearl's book I get the impression that the Smalls Claim Court could also be called the Finding A Reasonable Solution Court. At every turn we have to be seen to be arguing a reasonable case and looking for a reasonable solution. The emotive side of things (and where money is concerned there are many emotions), that I feel, the revenge for the crap they have caused me, needs to be dulled.
Those of you that are seeking to charge compounded interest of 29.85% I wish all the best but I do not think that you will get it (my opinion only). Lloyds TSB charge that particular interest rate on unauthorised borrowing only.
So if you have an o/d of £50.00 and on Monday you go overdrawn by £76 until Friday when you get paid.....well Lloyds TSB have only charged you the 29% figure on £26 for four days. No Small Claims judge is going to think it reasonable to apply 29.85% to the entire figure that LLoyds took and then compound the interest.
However if you have a classic account agreed interest overdraft then they charge you 18.7% AER on the overdraft and that is a consistent, always present rate. I think that I can argue that if they are charging me that then I can charge them that. So today I will sent in my letters to Lloyds and begin a small claims procedure claiming 18.7% AER compunded interest. There is also the element that by charging a figure close to this amount I am near the £5000 small claims limit but not over it and I wish to avoid the Fast Track at all costs.
I would like to thank those that helped me to understand this process and wish everyone making a claim real good luck, especially Mindzai and Lucid whom I will be watching and rooting for on the 07/02/06.
By the way, I know that this will make me look stupid but how do you keep a thread running? Do you just keep adding comments to your own thread?
Those of you that are seeking to charge compounded interest of 29.85% I wish all the best but I do not think that you will get it (my opinion only). Lloyds TSB charge that particular interest rate on unauthorised borrowing only.
So if you have an o/d of £50.00 and on Monday you go overdrawn by £76 until Friday when you get paid.....well Lloyds TSB have only charged you the 29% figure on £26 for four days. No Small Claims judge is going to think it reasonable to apply 29.85% to the entire figure that LLoyds took and then compound the interest.
Hi,
I hope I've interpreted your post correctly but please forgive me if I haven't.
You point out that Lloyds will charge you the unauthorised interest rate while you remain overdrawn for 4 days, which is correct. You then point out that by getting paid (as an example) you bring the account back into credit and so they stop charging interest, which is also correct. But when it is the other way around, the bank have taken charges which we haven't authorised them to take so they become unauthorised drawings. The bank haven't repaid us these charges so the original drawing remains unauthorised. This is why it is fair, in my opinion, to charge them the unauthorised borrowing rate.
If you didn't get paid (in your example above) and bring your account back into balance then Lloyds would continue to charge the unauthorised interest rate until the account is brought back into balance. This is actually what has happened with all of our accounts because we completely stopped using them when we started the whole process. Lloyds continued to take charges that were due in the initial few weeks which made us go more and more overdrawn. And they have still been charging us overdraft interest each month.
Also another important point is that, in general, people aren't adding the whole charges together and compounding the interest from that figure. Each charge is being compounded daily from the day the charge was taken.
Other banks have paid out contractual interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate so I don't see why Lloyds shouldn't - providing they're pushed enough. I don't know how it's goignt o work out but I'm sure they're goinng to be very stubborn - although they could surprise us. We may very well end up in court having to explain to a Judge why we think we are entitled to 29.85% and if they don't agree that it should be applicable then at least we will have tried.
Thank you for your support of our claim and I really hope that by the 7th Feb we have some important information.
I wish you the best of luck with your claim,
Lucid
Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB *Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded) Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65
*All settled in full - 6/2/07
*Hearings - 7/2/07
*Prelims sent - 9/8/06
_______ GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages
Thank you for explaining your argument and I sincerely am hoping that you are successful and that I am the voice of doom and gloom. I was not being down on you guys, I would love to go for the 29% figure but as Mindzai has written you have to be able to argue your case in front of a judge, if it was to go to a judge I do not think that it would necessarily go your way......although I hope it does, I think that we all deserve that.
The two added factors in my case is, as I said, charging 29% takes me out of small claims and into the fast track system and I am out of work. Having my case slung out is not a shrug your shoulders and try again option for me. If it gets slung out the interest compounds and I am even further out of the small claims league.
No of course I understand you weren't putting us down or being the voice of doom and gloom. I just thought I'd post and explain our argument as to why we are entitled to claim contractual interest. Everybody ahs to do whattis right for them and we are perfectly happy to stand up in fron of a judge and argue our case if it comes down to that. What the judge will think is a different matter - but we will give it a go!
Lucid
Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB *Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded) Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65
*All settled in full - 6/2/07
*Hearings - 7/2/07
*Prelims sent - 9/8/06
_______ GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages
Hi guys.
Hope all is going well with you. I sent in the pro forma letter to Lloyds, about 12 days ago. After much deliberation I decided to send it to my bank manager at my branch. I was expecting to be ignored yet it would appear that I am one of the blessed......for I received a standard letter. I will not bore you with the details, I am guessing that you would of seen them before. It gently seeks to explain that Lloyds are really rather lovely and within their rights to fleece me for £90 a month (aaaaaaah, they are so hard done by........am I doing the right thing? Feels like I am beating on a kitten). Anyway......I am going to send in my letter before action. My question is this.......do I send it back to the bank manager or the lady (who is based in Andover) whose name is printed on my standard letter? I am guessing the latter but what if she is just another bod and not the contact point? How about both?
The lady in Andover will be just another bod and if it was me I wouldn't address it to anybody specific. I'd return it to Andover - assuming it's the Andover Customer Service Recovery Centre.
Lucid
Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB *Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded) Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65
*All settled in full - 6/2/07
*Hearings - 7/2/07
*Prelims sent - 9/8/06
_______ GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages
Yes, there's a Customer Service Recovery Centre in Birmingham which the majority of people correspond with, but your letter has been forwarded to Andover so you may as well post directly to them.
Good luck. Lucid
Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB *Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded) Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65
*All settled in full - 6/2/07
*Hearings - 7/2/07
*Prelims sent - 9/8/06
_______ GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages
First out let me congratulate Mindzai and Lucid for their success against Lloyds. I have not been around recently but it was nice to log on and read of your success and I will now be seriously thinking about claiming the higher rate of contractual compounded interest.
My lba expired yesterday. No news from Lloyds, so time to fill in my N1. I am writing this with a heavy heart because it leaves me in a quandary.
In order to qualify for the small claims court I have to claim the lower figure of interest to 8 %. If I claim the compounded rates of interest (18.2% or 29.85%) then I am way over the limit of £5000 and into the fast track.
I dunno what to do. I do not want to claim the £5000 figure, here are a couple of the many reasons:
1. It is not representative of what Lloyds have taken from me.
2. I dunno if I can drop £3000 and still feel as though I have achieved a victory. My mind will always focus on the money that I might of got (and deserved).
At the same time this site is geared to running your case in Small Claims. I do not know if I can run my case in the Fast Track. There are so many questions, like do I need a lawyer? Is the initial form that is filled in still the N1 claim form?
I have phoned a lawyer (I have phoned more than one, all the London-based lawyers refused to take my call, my Uncle, who is a retired lawyer - not litigation, unfortunately - speculated that they may of been the ones who represented the banks) who answered some questions and caused me others. He said that the case was hugely 'speculative' (anyone who reads the questions below can only but agree) and that I should go to the FSO. He agreed to speak to me again on the basis that I paid him (fair enough) but I cannot afford him. In essence if I do need to appoint a lawyer then the money that they will take, plus court costs will negate any benefit of going into the Fast Track,
In the following I am asking for your opinions; I understand that no-one can make decisions for me (but in order to make decisions you need information, that I do not have and know not where to get):
1. Has anyone been through the Fast Track?
2. Can you run your own case in Fast Track? Is possible but in practice too difficult?
3. Is it still the same forms I use as I got in the small claims pack or do I need to get a different set?
4. Is going into the Fast Track more likely to make a bank contest? In essence if I did go to Fast Track and the bank actually took me to court and I won, well it is still worth doing. If I went and lost I would be financially ruined. However has any of the banks actually fought a case yet? Are they more likely to fight in the Fast Track?
5. What would you do? I feel like I am on effing 'Deal Or No Deal'. One box has £8000, one has £5000 and one is empty and I could lose all of it or gain all of it, as long as I do not do something stupid.............
Lloyds TSB - Any advice gratefully recieved.
TSB.
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Originally Posted by loosetooth
