Thread: Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.

It is imperative that you continue to pay any debt under the terms of a CCJ.

Issuing a court claim for non-compliance of a CCA request in all probability achieves nothing to benefit to the debtor, as a court claim is likely to spur a detailed search which could well end up with them producing a perfectly acceptable original signed agreement in court – which would result in the debtor losing the case, and being made liable for the creditor’s costs.

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it back The debtor may now however be in a good position to make a Full and final offer to clear the debt.

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Thanks Gizmo.

Sensible advice. I think your post clears up a lot of myths etc about the disclosure of Credit Agreements.

In my own case I have a lot of questions, but your post certainly makes sense.

Thanks Gizmo for clarification on this. Very informative.

So there is a possibility of agreeing a final settlement if the CCA cannot be supplied - although only of use if you happen to have the odd wad of cash lying around. No chance of that here!
Glad I've avoided CCJ's so far, default notices are bad enough.

Originally Posted by gizmo111

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested, after a further month the creditor has committed an offence. This offence can be reported to the Trading Standards Authority (in the creditors area, not your local one), or the FSA.

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. Not without the consent of the court They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, I disagree if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. in error & is grounds for appeal as no court may make an order without a properly executed signed agreement being produced. However the court may consider any signed form with the prescribed terms as being part of that agreement You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered. In their failure to supply one it would be for them to provide evidence that they did

It is imperative that you continue to pay any debt under the terms of a CCJ. Agreed

Issuing a court claim for non-compliance of a CCA request in all probability achieves nothing to benefit to the debtor, as a court claim is likely to spur a detailed search which could well end up with them producing a perfectly acceptable original signed agreement in court – which would result in the debtor losing the case, and being made liable for the creditor’s costs.

If you have not admitted or defended the debt or even if you have then the best way forward is to apply to have the CCJ set aside & start from scratch

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it back The debtor may now however be in a good position to make a Full and final offer to clear the debt.

Whilst the debt does continue to exist if the creditor fails to produce a properly executed 'signed' agreement that is a complete defence against enforcement. If they continue to pursue a debtor for a debt they know to be unenforcable (this includes debts out of time) they can be reported for criminal harrasment & risk losing their CCL

As for enforcement. Yes it is upto TS to mount a criminal prosecution but you can commence a civil action for none compliance.

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.


I disagree if a debt has been subjected to a CCJ and the agreement is being paid off at an agreed monthly amount then a request under the CCA is still legally binding, if the creditor fails to comply then he cannot enforce the agreement.

I don't think the debt has been enforced, the creditor obtains the CCJ to get the contract between the parties established in Law. Enforcement would come at a later date for non compliance by the Judgement debtor.

Paul

Originally Posted by sortingitout

From all that i have read on here, this is what i thought were true and if they went to court they would have to admit non compliance.

But if they had the agreeemnt - the court would just agree it could be enforced and probably award costs against you for bringing an unreasonable claim.

Originally Posted by gizmo111

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it back The debtor may now however be in a good position to make a Full and final offer to clear the debt.

This is not correct. Failure to comply with a CCA s77/78 request (where that request is relevant and valid) means that the creditor is not entitled to enforce the agreement.

Yes, the debt still exists, but the debtor has no obligation whatsoever to make further payments where a creditor cannot/does not comply and is thus barred from enforcing the agreement.

Originally Posted by InKogneeToh

This is not correct. Failure to comply with a CCA s77/78 request (where that request is relevant and valid) means that the creditor is not entitled to enforce the agreement.

Yes, the debt still exists, but the debtor has no obligation whatsoever to make further payments where a creditor cannot/does not comply and is thus barred from enforcing the agreement.

Thsi is exactly what the above statement says - and makes reference tothe fact that the debtor spent the money and therfore morally owes it. there is no reference here to enforcing the agreemnt.

Originally Posted by gizmo111

Thsi is exactly what the above statement says - and makes reference tothe fact that the debtor spent the money and therfore morally owes it. there is no reference here to enforcing the agreemnt.

Sorry, but your statement actually says:

because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it backThe debtor may now however be in a good position to make a Full and final offer to clear the debt.

This is misleading because it implies that there is still an obligation to pay back the money in such circumstances, whereas the fact is that there is NO obligation.

Also your final sentence could influence a reader of your post who is in this particular situation with a creditor into making an offer to clear a debt that they have no legal obligation to do.

Originally Posted by sortingitout

Why would it be unreasonable? The bank would have to take me to court to enforce the agreement, if they don’t produce a valid CCA with the allocated timescale, they would also have to admit they have committed a criminal offence.

No they wouldn't if you read the act the debt is only unenforceable whilstthe default continues, when they produce the agreeement they are no longer in default and can enforce, issuing a claim to say they didn't comply but now they have would acheive just a very fed up judge, and the risks of costs. What exactly would you be claiming?

With regards to the offence report them to the rrelevant authorities, it is up to them what sanctions they impose.

Far from admonishing the customer for bringing the claim, the judge is far more likely to ask the creditor why they didn't just provide it to the customer when asked for.

agreed - why waste court time when they have had the agreement all along?