Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Let's get this to everyone who is approaching or just reached the end of the 28 day wait, when the bank files it's defence>>>>>>>>>>>>
Up to now - we have said you'll get paperwork showing tranfer to local court, a copy of dg's defence AND AN ALLOCATION QUESTIONAIRE.
Totally new - as around 1 April - peeps are getting this from the court:
update: all mcol claims seem now to be getting this/n1 filers are still getting aq's (depending on the local court) We have received the Notice of Transfer of Proceedings and with this is another sheet of paper saying that
1. The filing of an allocation qustionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.
We can assume that the courts are so innundated with cases (and allocation questionaires) that they have decided to take this step.
It would appear that it means the judge MAY OR MAY NOT require an AQ to be filed. It suggests to me that the judges are fed up with the banks using the system to stall when they are perfectly aware that at the end of this great stall - the banks settle and the court system is being played to the bank's advantage. I think we will see the local judge doing one of two things - either requesting an AQ which I'm sure you will be made aware of by post OR: and think this is more likely- the judge will set a court date much earlier.
1 may 2007: when i wrote this one month ago - we didn't know what was going to happen - i think we can now say this: the case has at this point been sent to a local county judge. they will deal with it in one of several ways: they may require an allocation questionaire or not. they may require an a.q. fee be paid if it is allocated into a track - and a fee MAY BE PAYABLE or not. they may advise mediation. they may send the case straight to a pre-trial review. they may stay the case until a TEST CASE can be heard. they may require dg show their defence before yours. i'm sure i've left out a few scenarios.
the point is - each local judge will deal with this in their own way. you won't know until you hear from the local court and i can't say when as each one is different.
this is probably the most important thing i am writing on this thread so please read it: WHEN THE COURT SEND YOU THE DIRECTIONS (WHAT NEEDS DOING), IF YOU WANT US TO HELP - PUT THE FULL DIRECTIONS ON YOUR THREAD SO WE CAN READ AND ADVISE IMMEDIATELY! it's no good telling us you've missed a date - we don't do miracles! we can help but we have to know what is required.
this is all on the court side of things and you can't do much to hurry it along -
far preferable is to contact dg - and nudge them into an offer this is the best case scenario - so to that end. send dg a nudge letter. keep reading for ideas.
VERY IMPORTANT:
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT EVEN IF THE AQ IS DISPENSED WITH, THE AQ FEE OF £100 (IF CLAIM OVER £1500) MAY STILL BE PAYABLE (AND RECLAIMABLE FROM THE BANK). you won't know unless you ring the court - they don't send a bill!
The fee is usually payable within 14 days after the despatch of the notice of allocation to track (County Courts Fees Order 1999 Schedule 1). best to check shortly after hearing which court your case has been transferred to (and i say write down the name of the person and the date as to whether it is payable or not)
OK, don't panic at that info - this is, in my view, good news - as it will shorten the whole process. Let's see where this goes - it's too new to call. Most of you are aware - we are just people like you - watching and seeing what happens but the best guess is it means the banks will be forced into action much faster.
There will inevitably be a lot of discussion about this (the new approach by the court) and I think it would be a good idea to keep the discussion in one place and also have a place to refer to when people don't get the response at the end of 28 days that we have so confidently predicted.
It may come to pass that local judges will ask for the allocation questionaire and if they require one - it will undoubtedly be sent from the local court to the parties involved ( and the traditional 14 days or so to a filing deadline ). So until you hear otherwise, if the message received is that the AQ may be dispensed with in this case - take it that it has been until you hear otherwise.
Let the party begin.................... .
TO OTHER FORUM USERS: WELCOME, THIS IS HERE SOLELY BECAUSE I HELP WITH THIS FORUM - I DON'T SEE WHY ANY OF IT WOULDN'T APPLY TO ANY OTHER BANK/INSTITUTION - FEEL FREE TO ADD TO OUR THREAD AND USE ANY INFO -
Another thing: I wrote this thread: When you have filed your AQ................ for peeps when they had filed their AQ's.
If you haven't yet had to do an AQ - some of the info is still very pertinent to what to do next. Take a look and see how you can vary it and use the info to help you in dealing with the court and DG. Obviously not all of it is relevant - but some of it is and may help.
HERE IS THE DRAFT ORDER INFO - PLUS LETTER AND THE ORDER. HERE'S ANOTHER BIG ADDITION TO THIS THREAD AS OF FRIDAY 6 APRIL
The Court Manager
****** county court
Court Address
Court P/code
[date]
Dear Sir/Madam
You -v- Bank Plc
Claim Number: *******
It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily.
In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order.
The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.
- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.
- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.
The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.
As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.
Yours faithfully,
[name]
enc: Draft Order
THEN ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER - THIS:
Draft Order for Directions
see template for wording.
AND ONE FURTHER BIT OF INFO - I KNOW IT'S DRAGGING THIS POST OUT BUT I THINK IT BEST TO HAVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ALL IN ONE PLACE SO:
If the judge were to grant the draft order it would mean that when the court asks for the info - this is it, in triplicate (one set for you, one for the court and one for dg) - so DON'T do this until it is ordered by the court and it is about 5 days from being required as it is a heck of a lot of copying - probably over 200 pages times 3.
but this is the info that would be required should the draft direction be made an order:
If the judge agrees with the draft order and makes it a direction, it will come back to you and you will have at least 14 days (the date will be on the paperwork) to send in four things:
a) your schedule of charges. (ie a copy of your spreadsheet)
b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (Subject access request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)
c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionairesnote here: hsbc uses the service charge defence - so use this the first one on post 55
d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.
AND AFTER THE LLOYD'S WIN - LET'S BE SURE THERE'S A COPY OF terms and conditions IN THE BUNDLE.
This whole thing runs to around 200 pages and should be done in triplicate: one copy for you, one for the court and one for dg – that’s 600 pages of copying – LEAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOU NEED IT. If an offer comes in from DG and is accepted you wouldn’t need it. Really leave it until you have to do it to meet the deadline set by the court!
Looks Like I might be one of the first to find out!!!!
I am / was approaching the end of my 28 Day and got this on Firday 30th March.
NOTICE OF TRANSFER OF PROCEEDINGS
It Shows the transfer to a local court
Then on the same page the is and ORDER - Without hearing that the Allocation Questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.
However the affected party has 14 Days to apply to have this order set aside.
It also shows the defence Claim which they are defending under 5 points
Which when I read it, the defence looks fairly comprehensive with fancy words dates and regulations being quoted.
I will send DG a letter using the Template.
Anybody fancy a day out Cambridge County Court – I hope it does not get to that !!
i don't think it will - let's see how this pans out - dg could still ask for this to be set aside (if the judges are that pizzed off with their delaying tactics they may not do it), or the local judge could be old school and want an aq - in which case you'd get a letter saying that. I think maybe the judge will set a date and if dg can't stall it off - they will be round with an offer - the letter above just says let's get on with it - and i think it could get dg to see the light and make an offer. if it's not a full offer - then you have to decide whether to take it, reject it and ask for full amount or if it is nearly what you'd take - negotiate for a higher figure - we have letters to cover all of these. just hang in there for a bit and see what happens if you send the letter.
I think the courts are getting cheesed off with the banks playing brinkmanship!
If you remember in my case, Lattie, (see no 38 on my thread)for an amount under £1000, the Judge said he would make it fast track( which is usually for over £5000) and he would have a telephone hearing, which HSBC would have to arrange with the telephone company .......
Result .........Paid in full within 7 Days!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS - you're welcome to the X Lattie, you deserved it for all your help - pity I couldn't get the Tia Maria to you!
Looks Like I might be one of the first to find out!!!!
I will send DG a letter using the Template.
Me too Oyster, i got worried when everyone else seemed to have aq's but apparently we are the start of the new dawn, where the courts are getting annoyed with the banks using them to buy time. May i ask, which template you are referring to ?
this has been soo helpful i wondered why the court did not included the aq and had it crossed off in the letter!...
what happens now that they havent sent a aq?is the next letter from the courts setting a date?
i too got my letter on the 30th on a lovely saturday morning oyster11!
how much is your claim for?
Re: XXXXX - v - HSBC
account no,
claim no and filing date(mcol).
It has come to my attention that as of xx/xx/07, ( date of the letter from the court) that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case.
I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £xxxx. (rounded down to nearest pound-keep this as your full amount including charges, interest and court filing fee). I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.
I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.
For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges. I look forward to hearing from you.
There are some smart cookies in our legal establishment you can bet your bottom dollar the word has gone around the district judges. We haven’t seen an aq issued since last week so it has to be the courts short circuiting the system to reduce the work load.
What we will have to be careful of is DG dropping the ball and not making an offer before the court date, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t show at the court but we must make sure our members do and they have all of the paperwork they need to get the defence thrown out by the judge there and then.
Under normal circumstances when you go to court you have to produce a court bundle, this is basically copies of all of the correspondence you have got relating to your case together with any evidence and case law to support your claim (see the court bundle template in the library) this is sent to the court and to the banks solicitors a few days before the court date so everyone can read what your asking for and are up to speed when you get into the courtroom.
With this new system we will have to wait and see what the district judges ask for, they know the banks wont go into a court room so they may not ask for a bundle, it would just be a waste of time reading it.
But if DG do drop the ball and not make an offer before the court date and you end up attending a court I think you should have all of your case with you and I would think in the form similar to a court bundle that a judge can scan quickly and make a decision.
you've got me worried now. Can anyone tell me exactly what i would need should I end up in court. Where do I get all the legal (law) stuff from? Should I contact a solicitor to represent me? HELP!
Freaky there is nothing to panic about, as Lattie says the whole point of her letter is to gee up DG to make an offer against your claim. This is also what I beleive the judges are trying to do.
The last thing DG want is a straight dismissal of their defence because that will really put you in the driving seat. You would be perfectly within your rights to hire a bailiff to collect the debt from your HSBC branch and I don’t think the directors of HSBC would want that sort of publicity on top of the stuff that’s been in the press lately.
It's really up to the district judges, they appear to have altered the system and I'm sure we dont have the full picture yet, we will have to see if there are any directions issued with or before they issue the court dates so play it by ear. No one is going to say your court date is tomorrow, you will be given time to prepare, and by that time we should have a clearer picture of what’s going on and what we need to do.
To tone down what I have posted here I’m copying an earlier post on one of latties other threads I think its self explanitory;
It won’t be up to DG, the Judges will set a court date knowing the banks will settle before that date.
It should cut out all the extensions to deadlines messing about we are getting now and if DG don’t sort out their act by the court date and make an offer it will be a straight strike out of the defence when they don’t show at court.
Will mean it will be a bit of an arse clenching day for those that DG don’t sort and have to go to court but should be worth it. A straight strike out will mean you can get the bailiffs in to recover your cash <laffin>
Don’t think HSBC will allow the present messing about to continue once the bailiffs have been into their branches a couple of times.
I'm sure we can arange arse clenching lessons for those with no contol <laffin>
New---after 28 Days - Maybe No Aq!!!!!!!
) (only send the statements with charges on them.)
, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.
personal_banking_terms.pd f (177.1 KB, 40 views)
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by oyster11
Re: New---after 28 Days - Maybe No Aq!!!!!!!
