Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
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Or at least contact your bank before you do, there are things that we can do to prevent the charge... but not afterward.
Whilst I can't deny that is sound advise, the fact is you are quite correct that there are things the bank can do to prevent charges ... before afterwards as well.
When a customer has a regular income but something like a payday is late or a regular monthly payment doesn't get sent from the CSA, many customers go just a few pounds overdrawn (basically those lower income households struggling trying to make ends meet). A charge of £35 for a couple of quid for a couple of days can create another charge and another. Getting an authorised O/D often isn't available for high risk low income families, students, single parents, pensioners etc and these are amongst the worst hit by bank charges.
annonman- make sure you PM dave or BankFodder, the latter normally has space in his PM box. Just a formality and they will keep you safe, 100% guaranteed.
You are absolutley right welshcakes - my original thread may have sounded a bit sarcastic but it makes a valid point.
I think banks should create some kind of more basic version of a current account that simply won't allow anyone to exceed their limit & incur a charge. This gives people on low income a choice if they have difficulty budgeting. Most banks currently some sort of basic account aimed at those on benefit, but the lack of facilities (eg debit card & chq book) make it less desireable.
i am natweststaffmember formerly, the site mods and helpers here are fantastic in making sure when a bank worker does take a lot of flak in protecting them. Some good bank workers have left this site because of the anger of some.
I agree that the charges are set at too high a value - and wish I had authority to refund large quantities of charges - but the fact is branch staff generally have hands tied from above.... From personal experience, the general public may find they get a more favourable response regarding refunds if they are polite / friendly towards staff - someone who comes in all guns blazing just upsets staff. We don't make the rules but are charged with enforcing them.
I think banks should create some kind of more basic version of a current account that simply won't allow anyone to exceed their limit & incur a charge. This gives people on low income a choice if they have difficulty budgeting. Most banks currently some sort of basic account aimed at those on benefit, but the lack of facilities (eg debit card & chq book) make it less desireable.
My god, a bank worker with whom I agree!!!
Anonman, you are absolutely right.
0 tolerance. If you have it, you can spend it. If you don't, it won't go through, same as with cash. But you don't get charged if payment is blocked, or a small sum if it is a cheque, as we know that there are higher cots involved in processing them. Then, it's between creditor and debtor, as it should be. We must stop relying on credit as a necessity to see us from day to day, week to week. For buying your house, yes, cars, big purchases, yes. But not for living. That's how so many people end up living in their o/draft most of the time.
So what's wrong with this scenario?
The banks, that's who. It would be naive in the extreme to believe they would willigly relinquish the huge amount of profits generated by us cash cows at the bottom of the ladder.
The banks hold the key to the solution in their hands. But you can bet they will not do this. Not ever if they can help it.
Apologies to people who I was in the process of helping, I may be gone some time.
I wish it all were as simple as you make it sound in your original post.
A case in point.
I made the mistake of going overdrawn by writing a cheque for £58.00 give or take, (guaranteed by virtue of the Cheque guarantee card I have), which was duly 'bounced'. A simple miscalculation. Ok, I thought, that's an end to it, the cheque will be paid and I'll suffer the charge. Didn't bother calling the bank to arrange an overdraft, just thought to make my lfe simple. Pay the charge, go forward!
I've reclaimed charges in the past, and I figured that, as it really was my fault for going overdrawn that, whilst I disagree with the lawfullness of the charge for doing so, I would pay it and be more careful in future.
I looked at my account online to see that I had indeed incurred a charge of £39.00, and I had deposited £100.00 in the meantime. Then I saw at a later date to my surprise that there was a second charge relating to the same transaction, another £39.00, even 'though it was the original charge which had taken me again into the situation where there was not enough in my account to cover a second presentation. (Where was the cheque guarantee?) The cheque had been marked RDPR (refer to drawer, please represent). On top of this, the bank then charged me £28.00 for 'unauthorised borrowing',
That put me about £70.00 OD which I couldn't hope to cover until payday, and before that, again I had another charge of £28.00 for 'unauthorised borrowing'.
I wrote to the bank complaining about what are excessive charges, (and let's be honest, those charges ARE excessive wherever you are coming from), saying that I would have accepted the first charge, but due to their behaviour now wanted to claim the full amount back. They first simply said that as a gesture of goodwill they would forego the next 2 month's charges!!!! and I wrote back to say that this was unacceptable, and after a bit of, 'We'll think about this over the next few weeks', etc, the bank refunded all the charges.
Now, I'm not really bad at managing my finances, generally, but I admit I made a mistake. I have a good, steady wage, 3 bank accounts. I own my own property, and have only one debt which is for a loan which has been 'topped up' over the years on a regular basis, and which has never had a missed or even a late payment.
Not all of us are that lucky. Many thousands of people are not in a position to absorb even one penalty charge from a bank, and let's be fair, it's the people at the lower end of the income spectum who are more likely to have a problem managing their finances and get into difficulty however clever they are at juggling. Sometimes it's literally impossible to stay 'in the black'.
So, please don't say that it's easy to avoid charges, that's like saying that you will never run out of petrol if you fill the tank up when the needle hits 1/4 full. It's true, of course, but simply not always possible.
Regards,
PeteCC
NatWest, claimed £521.00, settled in full.
Data Protection Act to LTSB (sent 15th June) Received statements 10/7/2006. Claiming £570.50. Sent claim 17th July Reply received 21st July. (sent LBA 22nd July) Then the procrastination started. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-progress.html
Settled in full £905.18, confirmation faxed to the court the day before I appeared, which meant I didn't know 'til the Judge told me.
Letter requesting disclosure of account info from Thoburn's bailiffs. (sent) Data Protection Act to follow.
Ooh, the suspenders is killing me!
Let's also remember that you get charged for NOT exceeding your limit as well. I have only ever had one bank account with an overdraft - I have been charged a total of 62 quid for the bank NOT paying a £3 standing order twice. At no point did this £3 standing order take me over any *limit* - it was simply not paid due to insufficient funds, yet I was still charged 62 quid.
Of course, it was this incident that partly started this site - so not all a bad thing eh?
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Up until very recently, I was a full time nursing student with a 'massive' income of £500 per month. I have to be honest and say that the last 3 years have been really tough going - I didn't qualify for any benefits like WTC ('cos nursing students don't work??) and because my husband has a job , albeit low paid - we didn't qualify for financial help with childcare either. We approached the Abbey on many occasions about the huge charges that they continually levied when there were insufficient funds in the account for D/D's and S/O's - usually around £150 per month. It just became a bit of a vicious circle - they charged us, left us with no money again and subsequently insufficient funds to pay the following month therefore incurring more charges. Their advice? ...Cancel them all - that way, we reduce the risk of incurring charges - and can manage our finances better! Er...yeah, OK then.
So you see, we've actually tried your suggestion already - and it got us..... absolutely nowhere - it was a nice thought though.
I have a suggestion to assist everyone in avoiding bank charges.
Don't exceed your overdraft limit.
Or at least contact your bank before you do, there are things that we can do to prevent the charge... but not afterward.
OK, I'm going to respond before the bottle of red goes down any more. Can I give you a little info on how your suggestions work in reality?
a) Don't exceed your overdraft limit.
Excellent advice - wish it was that simple. Every so often, human beings have a habit of doing something called 'miscalculation'. You think you've added everything up to the last penny - however, you didn't take into account the fact that your NTL D/D was actually 60p higher this month than last month. Result? D/D bounced at a cost of £38, unarranged borrowing fee of £28, interest on the UAB fee of whatever the banks deem applicable, plus twice the amount of money to pay to NTL next month. Final outcome? Skint beyond belief and desperately trying to explain to your 12 year old why he has to continue to wear school shoes that are too small for him; trying to explain to 8 year old twins why they can't have their birthday party; bricking it just in case your petrol doesn't last till the child benefit comes in as you'd be unable to go to work (too far to walk - no public transport links).
b) Or at least contact your bank before you do, there are things that we can do to prevent the charge... but not afterward
Excellent idea, why didn't I think of that? Ooooooooh........... just remembered............ I did!!!! Conversation went something like this: I've miscalculated one of direct debits this month, it's going to take me 60p over my existing overdraft. Could you possibly honour the D/D please? It's due out tomorrow and, until my child benefit goes in the day after, I honestly haven't got a spare penny. I also can't get to the bank as I'm in work before you open, don't finish till you're closed and can't get any time off work (year end - holidays used - you know how it goes!)
Answer? Eh? Be understanding and helpful and support you to avoid our extortionate and unlawful charges? No chance hedgey, on 'yer bike girl!
Now, I'm trying to be really nice here as I know you have a job to do and I would not intentionally disrespect somebody for expressing their opinion. I believe in freedom of speech, equality, active citizenship, being non-judgemental, human rights, father christmas and the fairy at the bottom of the garden. However, in this instance, may I say that I find your comments slightly patronising and inappropriate, particularly after the recent whistleblower programme. Compounded by your lack of understanding as to the human impact of the unlawful charges levied by banks and the fact that aforementioned 12 year old son's school shoes still too small (we've ordered a pair from a friends catalogue though), I must say I'm feeling rather touchy right now!
Apologies if I've offended you - however.................
Certainly no offense taken. As i have said earlier, original post not meant to come accross as sarcastic - it was meant to be a light-hearted suggestion. Clearly though it wasn't!!!!!!!!
As for the Whistleblower program - it made some shocking and entirely valid points - but seemed to give the impression that all staff are out to get you at every turn due to desire to earn a bonus. Simply not the case. A few bad apples yes - but the vast majority of all banks employ people who are hard-working and honest.
Guys and gals, Anonman is in his infancy on here and learning all the time that while i agree with what he is saying or rather recognise that bank speak very well, the reality is not always as simple as that. I am sure that he/she is learning about that already from the things that everyone is saying. It takes time to get your feet on here. Anonman, i guess you are learning a lot at the moment and if from another thread you are to be ex staff soon your eyes are slowly opening up from the bank shutters that they were under.
Bank Charges - A suggestion
limit.
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Originally Posted by anonman
