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    • Yes, Hotpoint UK has been a subsidiary of Whirlpool for over 20 years. And unlike some domestic goods manufacturers you can buy from them direct and I believe they employ their own service engineers, Is that your situation? You bought direct from Hotpoint and Hotpoint sent out their own engineer?
    • It's Hotpoint (but I believe they're part of the Whirlpool group now?). The part was bought direct from them as a consumer.
    • Thanks BankFodder for your latest, I'm in complete agreement on the subject of mediation and will be choosing to decline mediation, the longer timeline is not an issue for me, I will happily let the going to court run it's course. I really appreciate the support from the Consumer Action Group. I'll post the email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response. Regards, J    email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response:  
    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
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Bankers Draft Conundrum


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What is a bankers draft and why would you pay for one?

 

I had a Natwest Bankers draft today (a win from my case against them) so for fun went into natwest to pay it into my account and asked how long it would take to clear as it was the same bank and a bankers draft... the answer? 5 working days.

 

So exactly why would you pay £21 or so for a bankers draft?

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A personal cheque is a cheque drawn on a personal account. A bank draft is a cheque

drawn on the bank's account. To get one, you have to give them cleared funds first. Ie if you want a cheque from them for £1000, you must give them £1000-plus

their charge- I must say that £21 is a bit excessive- sure it's not £12?

So the cheque is virtually guaranteed not to bounce, unlike a personal cheque where you take pot luck. The banks say they are as good as cash. They are not.

They can be stopped just like a personal cheque-though you usually need a good reason. You have lost the draft, or you have a serious dispute with the person you gave the cheque to, for example. Drafts can also be forged and I know of instances where blank drafts have been stolen from a branch and then filled in for large amounts by the thief.

Why use them? Safety for one thing. Drafts are usually for fairly large amounts

[buying a car as an example]. If you get mugged with cash on you, you lose your cash:with a draft all you do is stop the cheque and get a replacement. Also much

easier to send it through the post than cash where the recipient will not accept a

personal cheque. It's a shame that just about the only bank that has a cheque

guarantee card for £1000 is the United bank of Kuwait.

 

Also if you accept a draft from someone, once you have exchanged your goods for it, do not let that person have access to the draft. There have been instances

where once they have your goods, they snatch the draft and tear it up then

claim they lost it and get their money back from the bank.

 

PS the reason that it takes 5 days to clear is that as it is still a cheque, it has to go through the same process as a

personal cheque [the bank clearing system]for it to be paid.

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ok, i apologise for posting again, but here goes.

 

at the halifax where i work, and deal with drafts all the time.

 

we can stop them, but only on reciept of written authourity from the payee on the draft, that is the only way we can do it, and get the customer to sign to accept that is the only way it will be stopped.

 

we can pay a halifax draft into a halifax account as cleared funds, slighty different procedures if it is the drawing branch, or another one, but end result is the funds available straight away.

 

hope that helps in any way.

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You are welcome to post whenever you want Howard.

I am surprised in a way that the Halifax treats drafts drawn on themselves as cleared funds straight away. After all the draft itself will not be cleared for payment

until 3 days later when it arrives at Head Office. There it will be checked for

authenticity and that it has not been stopped, nor any other reason for non-payment.

Compared to Nat West, the Halifax is comparatively new to having received banking status and so may not have been heavily stung by adopting this practice commendable though it may be. It remains to be seen if they will be forced to change in the future, but they do run a risk as it stands.

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Someone I know was scammed via a fake bankers draft. (classic nigerian [problem], they sent a bankers draft for larger than the sale amount, then asked my friend to send them the balance minus an amount for her trouble - my friend assumed that as the bankers draft had cleared into her account it was fine and the money was safe) The bank accepted it when it was paid in, cleared it and my friend sent the money. A few days later my friend happened to mention it to me, I realised what was going on and told her to phone the bank immediately. They said 'yes there are scams like this, we'll look into it'. 2 weeks later my friend received a letter informing them that it was fake. It wasn't even a very good fake (my friend realised when she saw it again how bad it was, but she assumed as the bank accepted it that they must have checked it and it was fine)

 

Result - the bank took the money back with no liability to themselves whatsover. The police did sod all.

 

I certainly wouldn't accept a bankers draft for large amounts such as a car. The rules about clearing must have changed, as then (last year) the bank had an obligation to make the funds available within 48hrs, what they don't tell you and what very few people seem to be aware of is that it can bounce and they will take the money back 2 weeks later.

 

I know my friend went to the FSA and CA, but never got a penny back. I think the amount was around £900.

Bank of Scotland: Claiming £699.47, SETTLED IN FULL at moneyclaim stage

Sisters NatWest - Claiming £1056 - SETTLED at AQ stage

Natwest CC - Claiming £804, SETTLED IN FULL at LBA stage

GF Natwest - claiming £749.33, moneyclaim filed - SETTLED IN FULL 04/08

MBNA: Claiming £150 - SETTLED IN FULL at LBA stage

HSBC: £1014 - SETTLED at LBA stage + pending charges removed

Sisters HSBC - £300 - SETTLED IN FULL at prelim stage

Yorkshire bank - claiming £496.68 - SETTLED IN FULL at court date stage.

Capital One - claiming £605.54 -SETTLED IN FULL

 

 

 

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You are welcome to post whenever you want Howard.

I am surprised in a way that the Halifax treats drafts drawn on themselves as cleared funds straight away. After all the draft itself will not be cleared for payment

until 3 days later when it arrives at Head Office. There it will be checked for

authenticity and that it has not been stopped, nor any other reason for non-payment.

Compared to Nat West, the Halifax is comparatively new to having received banking status and so may not have been heavily stung by adopting this practice commendable though it may be. It remains to be seen if they will be forced to change in the future, but they do run a risk as it stands.

we do quite a few checks when it is presented, even when it is at the dsame branch it is drawn, anything doesn't add up, it goes straight into the normal clearing system, and an investigation is started at the same time.

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  • 12 years later...

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

Do you have a website? Add the following code to add a link to The Consumer Action Group:

 

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