Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Abbey
Data Protection Team
Regulatory Compliance
Abbey House
201 Grafton Gate East
Milton Keynes
MK9 1AN
Direct Dial Telephone: 01908 344061
Dear Mahala
Thank you for your request for access to your information as per your rights under the Data Protection ACt. We also acknowledge receipt of your cheque for £10.00
As your bank accounts are still registered in your previous name and address we will require further identification to enable us to proceed with your request. We would therefore be grateful, if you could supply to us with a copy of signed Driving License or Passport. (sic) If this form of identification is not available, a copy of your Birth Certificate/marriage Certificate will be acceptable.
Under a Data Protection Act Disclosure Request, you will only receive the transactions what are held on our systems. Any earlier transactions have been archived onto microfiche, which is not covered by the Data Protection ACt. We can however, supply the microfiche on payment of an administration fee. The fee will be as follows: -
£5.00 for 1 monthly statement which has been archived.
£10.00 for multiple monthly statements, which have been archived.
We have attached a form should you also wish to proceed with this request.
In the meantime, from information supplied by you arrangements have been made to search our files and systems for data. Please note that once we have received your verified identification our findings will be forwarded to you within the statutory 40-day period, which commenced on 3 May 2006.
If you ahve any queries, please contact us on the above number.
Yours sincerely,
Mrs Sheens Small
Data Protection Consultant
Data Protection Team
so the usual poor standard of written English.
I have a couple of questions though. I suppose it is reasonable for them to ask for further ID, since I have moved several times since the last time I used any Abbey account, and have also married since then. What I'm not so sure of is how any of the ID they asked for can help them? My driving license is in my married name with no reference to my maiden name, or previous addresses - the same is true of my passport. My marriage certificate will beof no use to them, as it doesn't state my maiden name - I changed my name by deed poll the year before, so states my married name twice ... My birth certificate does contain my previous name obviously, but nothing to connect it to me now .... I'm also not sure why they need this extra ID, as they have obviously located my information.
Secondly I want to query the statement about microfiche. I know it's been discussed somewhere before, but not sure what the outcome was, or how to proceed. I do think that's it's bloody cheeky to say I can't have it under DPA, but they can access it and if I give them another tenner I can have the information.
So some advice please, as to what my reply should be?
For the record, I believe that none of the information regarding charges will be from the last 6 years. However, they did persue me for a joint overdraft (having decided not to bother trying to extract any money from the other party), so I'd like to see what they have anyway, whether the debt was sold etc, because I was paying on it less than 6 years ago.
To be fair to Abbey the ID request is to protect you as well as them and I can see why they're asking for it in your case. You could ring them, run through the situation and see what they need.
The microfiche argument is a complete fob off. Have a read of the sticky threads in this forum and then do a search on microfiche. If you have further questions, please post them.
Here's the letter I have prepared to send tomorrow. Can someone read it and let me know what they think, or if there's anything that needs to be added or deleted? Cheers
Data Protection Act disclosure request
Dear Mrs Small
I am in receipt of your letter dated 09/05/2006, outlining that you could only provide me with printouts covering recent transactions on my account, because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche.
My request was for all information held on me by Abbey, including a complete list of transactions and charges relating to all of my accounts since their creation – in short, a list of charges with dates and amounts – alternatively, a complete set of account statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems, and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.
I am aware that you have been willing and able to provide other customers with a print-out of transaction information covering this period – and am ready to bring this to the attention of the Information Commissioner should it prove necessary. I would also draw your attention to Smith v Lloyds TSB Bank plc (2005) EWHC 246 (Ch).
This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery, and therefore should have reached you by 15/05/2006 – as you will be aware, as of this date you have just 28 days in which to comply with my request. As stated above, a complete set of account statements for the period in question will be acceptable; however, I expect this to be provided within the time period for DPA compliance.
Should there be any further attempts to delay compliance, I will be left with no alternative but to escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner and/or the county court under s.7 and/or s.13 Data Protection Act.
I have enclosed a copy of my signed Driving License as requested.
I have now receivec some info from Abbey, but NOT a schedule of charges and transactions. There has been no reply to the letter I sent about the microfiche argument. Included with the info sent was another "request for copy statements" form to complete. The form asks for only £10 for multiple statements but as the request would not be made under DPA, I am aware that I might receive them sometime never.
Also, I requested this same info under the DPA and was told that it was not available.
They have until the 12 June to comply with the DPA request. I will write to them tomorrow reminding them of that.
I'm not sure what to do for the best at this point. I made a DPA request to Abbey for all the accounts I held with them, from the date of opening (I had no idea of account numbers etc).
Abbey sent me the usual letter about relevant filing systems and requesting a further payment of £10 to send copy statements (having already had the £10 DPA fee).
I wrote back with Alan's microfiche argument letter and heard nothing back until this weekend, when a packet arrived with some general info on the accounts, but no transactions and charges. Included was another copy of the copy statements request. I assume that was their eloquent response to my letter.
Now then - I know that there have been hundreds of pounds of charges added to at least one of these accounts. I also know that they were all more than 6 years ago, and that there was a large debt on the account, which was passed onto a DCA.
I've decide tow ait and see what happens with other people's claims going back more than 6 years before starting mine - I have enough to be getting on with!
With that in mind, what should I do re: DPA situation. The 40 day deadline is up on 12 June, and I would hate to think that I let Abbey get away with non-compliance, but not sure how to proceed and whether I'd be doing it for nothing anyway if I@m not claiming yet.
On the other hand, they've had my £10 DPA fee and have not sent the requested information (or at least not the most important parts of it) and I really don't like their "microfiche is not a relevant filing system" argument, when we all know they'll have one of the most up-to-date systems going - otherwise how could they find my copy statements?
What shall I do, and if I should push this further, can someone suggets the wording for a letter, since I now have brain freeze?
Im in exactly the same situation with Barclaycard, and I know a couple of others are as well.
Is that what we do then, go to court to seek non-compliance.
I had a verbal admission from Rachel Sheils at Bcard yesterday that went
me " Im reading your letter here and I can see that you are stating that microfiche isnt a relevant filing system"
rachel sheils " yep thats right"
Me "OK then, but I can order statements at £3 a copy"
her "yep"
Me "if I order the statements with customer services over the phone today, how long will it take for me to recieve these statements"
Her "erm 14 days, maybe 21 days"
Me, " well the DPA request gave you 40 days why did you not just rake through the microfiche then as you would have had adequate time to comply with the DPA request of 40 days if it only takes max 21 days"
her " erm erm, well its all so time consuming, thats why it costs three quid a statement"
me " so its the labour costs that are £3 effectively"
her "erm yeah, but if you send me a cheque Ill process it etc"
me " Ill leave it for now thanks youve been really helpful, bye"
So its all tripe as far as Im concerned.
Will they pay my court fee, i really dont have the cash to lose at this stage unfortunately.
if you take them to the small claims court and win (and it has been confirmed that non-compliance with the DPA erquest should go through SMall Claims) then they will have to pay your court costs
OK, I have heard nothing further from Abbey, and their DPA deadline is up on Monday. I sent the microfiche letter and heard nothing back from them at all, except to get another copy of the form to request copy statements.
Having read the defence they submitted in Seminole's claim, I'm prepared to go ahead with this. Initially I wasn't sure, necause my charges were more than 6 years ago, however I read somewhere on here that Abbey have paid a claim going back further than 6 years.
I'd be prepared to test that out anyway, once I know how much to claim for.
So, where do I go from here, DPA wise? Alan? Seminole? Anyone else?
armed with the small amount of info I have managed to get from Abbey so far, I went to close two accounts which had credit balances. Remember that my accounts were in my maiden name and with a registered address 6 years out of date...
Still the DP dept were happy to supply my info on production of my birth certificate, and I called Abbey this morning to check what I would need to access the money: birth certificate and drivers license, and the account numbers.
Got to Abbey and told them I'd like to close these 2 accounts please. Explained that there were no cards, cheque books, pass books or anything else to hand back, and about the change of name. Wad told it would take 14 days to close the accounts and the money would be sent to the registered address in the form of a cheque made payable to the name on the account. I explained that I woiuldn't be able to cash the cheque because I have no accounts in that name, they refused to budge. I asked if thay meant Abbey intended to keep my money? "It's policy to do it this way".
So I said that was fine, I would just make a withdrawal now from each account - of the full balance in each case (which only amounts to about £55, but I'm on unpaid maternity leave - every bit helps). I was told they needed 2 forms of ID. I was ready for this, having checked with customer services this morning, and duly handed over my DL and birth certificate. I was told they couldn't accept the DL because it was not in my maiden name and did not have my old address on it. They wanted my passport instead. I pointed out that this was also in my new name. They wanted my marriage certificate (told them it was no use, because I changed my name by deed poll before I was married). I pointed out that my birth certificate was proof enough of my ID for their data protection department to send me this account info in the first place - I had also taken along the account summary sheet sent to me from the data protection department. Still not good enough. So I gave her my debit card and my credit card, as well as my DL, my birth certificate, the print out from the DP dept - almost asked if she wanted my soul as well.
Then she went off to confer with the other 2 members of staff. They took copies of everything and talked some more. Eventually, and somewhat reluctantly and with many a suspicious look, they gave me my money. I watched as the cashier counted out £51.79 and £4.79 (told you it wasn't a lot) and then changed her mind and put the 2 lots of 79p back and recounted it out using as many coins as possible ..... got to let them have their small victories ....
Then they filled out the forms to close the bank account. they made their point again that aby remaining funds would be paid in such a way so that I couldn't access them. For some reason they couldn't simply change the name and address on the account - for reasons that weren't fully explained. I smiled sweetly and said it was OK, if there were any funds to come to me and they insisted on paying them in this way, I would take Abbey to court for the balance. The assistant looked a little shocked and said something about it being my fault because I hadn't kept the detials up to date. I replied that it didn't make me any less entitled to my own money.
I was staggered - bearing in my mind this is money just sitting in the account - it's not money in dispute or anything.
One consolation was that I had checked their opening hours before going, to make sure I could get there in time. I was told they closed at 5pm. I got there at ten to five. It took them half an hour to put on this performance, and because all available staff members were involved, no-one thought to close the doors, and so customers were still queuing to be served when I left at twenty past!
Still I'm £55 better off, which will go towards taking Abbey to court for repyament of unlawful charges lol. Well, £35 of it will anyway - I got waylaid on the way back to the car and bought a pair of trousers pmsl!
Today is the deadline I gave Abbey to comply with my DPA request. They've had the lba, so I'm off to the court this afternoon to file a claim to get an order for them to comply.
Silly people.
edited: actually the deadline is tomorrow, so will file then
Looking at the costs in addition to court costs - what should I be claiming? Just the approx £6.50 spent on postage, or should I also be adding in a figure for my time? If so, how do I calculate/quantify/prove this amount?
well, I took my 2 copies of the N1 form down to the local county court today. The clerk had no idea what to do with the claim, as other people have said. Luckily, I went armed with the info alanfromderby gave in the Library section. She wanted to put it on other forms and all sorts. I eventually persuaded her that this was correct and just take the fee and file it please lol!
So, claim filed, will see what happens now. Should I expect threatening letters in the post as per Seminole's case I wonder, or do you think they will have learned their lesson?
Mahala v Abbey
Certificate will be acceptable.
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