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I want to challeng this messy case, found againt me, for an unpaid loan. Have tried to get the judgement set aside without success. I could not attend the first case in Northampton and asked for it to be transferred to MK. It was. Second judge would not hear it and thought I was quote trying for a second bite of the cherry unquote - he also stated that no judges had heard on penalties. So the extra fee was also lost. My counter claim does not seem tohave been heard at all and so I think I need to write to judge 1 and get the details......I will look through my paperwork later and try to post again with the outcomes. At the time I was not online so did it alone and could not quote any law/reason to the judge(2) to get him to see my point. Also, he would not comment on anothers work and I think I cannot do that kind of thing in small claims, so may have to simply apply for the charges within that loan as a separate claim, however, I am still stuck with their costs to pay and a CCJ !
[quote=campari2;587515]I want to challeng this messy case, found againt me, for an unpaid loan.....
So - have been through my papers and find that I completed the Defence section of the questionnaire as indicated on the courts service web page, sent back within time. So I think this is most likely a procedural error - unless it should have been on a different form, it seems that my counter claim was never looked at. I also note that the judge has awarded a sum to Black Horse that I have refuted in my defence, and still have letters stating a difference balance. I think I do need to challenge this again but still dont know if poss. and how. With all these errors could I ask for it to be thrown out?? Can I ask for a copy of the results on their files?? I just had a one sided form back stating I had to pay all this money with about 7 days to so do! Any advice would be helpful. thanks.
You need to calm down a little here and start from the beginning. Could you:
Give some details on the loan (try not to be too specific and muddy the waters. May 03 will suffice over 12th May 2003 (i.e. this is a public place - you are hidden to a certain degree, don't be too brazen
Did you stop payment?
What actions have you taken?
Do you have any bank charges you can hit back with?
What happened when you received the MCOL?
Post some info and I'll get back with some questions.
I'm not a legal eagle, but there are a number of them about. If I can get BankFodder interested, and a couple of others we'll see what we can do.
Relax, we may not be able to answer all of your questions, but we will try
Hi there - I didnt realise that my stress was so obvious! I'll try to be more succinct. Black Horse Credit Agreement (regulated). Fell beind with payments, agreed reduced payments,but no interest change or freeze ever agreed. Have no employment. Mthly int., was higher than the payment, thus never ending. Wrote for charges info. BH suddenly offered int. rate change, BUT sumiltaneously summonsed me via Sechiarai Clark & Mitchell. (I had stopped paying for several mths.) Completed defence section for hearing but transfer to local was refused, could not attend on day (son ill). All found against me at figures I had disputed. Asked for transfer again and re-hearing. Then done in MK. No go. Had included claim for penalties in first defence Sect. G of questionnaire, I thought was a counter claim but the judge said not? Statements that did arrive prior to first hearing were actually ordered to be sent by the judge as BH did not comply to SAR. Sorry, some of this is confusing even to me! ( I paid £1636 off of £2197, but now owe £2279 as ordered by judge). any ideas....................
There are a couple of things that may well be irreversible.
Did you, in your defence, confirm that you owed the money? Did you partially confirm the amount owed? Or did you say, No, I don't owe it. This would have been in your original defence.
Secondly, it is unheard of for the case not to have been transferred locally to you. ltsb are national, you are not, they took you to court, you ask for it to be moved locally to you. I'm kind of thinking that there is something in your defence and aq that went astray.
Do you have a copy of the defence you filed, along with the AQ? Could you email me with details (I'll PM my email address shortly) and we'll see where we can go.
The thing with the courts is if you mess up with the simple things (defence and AQ) and then compound this by not turning up, you've instantly got a mountain to climb. What I suggest is that if you didn't acknowledge the debt in your defence, you could issue a SAR and a section 77 request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, but if you've committed just one of a number of simple to avoid errors, your scope for comeback will be limited.
In your shoes I would attempt to find out about any charges they have issued against you, I would then try to pull the original credit agreement apart, but your options may be limited.
I'm not being negative here, I just don't want to bolster your hopes. If you go for the SAR and s77 approach, you're going to take longer than the 7 days LTSB are giving to you. I haven't seen any of the paperwork at this stage, but I'm guessing that they will be quite short with you.
In light of this, I suggest you start to read parts of the bailiff's threads on this website. You need to be forearmed on that front, and you may well see something that is applicable to your situation there and something you can use. Time is short on this one, I'll poke a mod and see what other advice we can send your way.
Hi there - I did stop paying this whilst disputing with BH, I admitted I owed some money, I claimed the penalty charges with full particulars from the start, but none of this has been considered/heard. I think this is probably irreversible as you say but if I am to claim the charges separately now/soon, has it effectively already been thrown out? P'haps I should get first hearing outcome in detail from court, if poss. ?...
The issues you need to overcome are: If you agreed you owed them the whole amount, charges and all, you are in trouble. The next problem you need to overcome is that if you agreed you owed some money, how much exactly did you say?
We're going to need some help from other people on this as I'm not a legal expert. I think the reason your defence was thrown out is that you didn't show up in court, but then we have the whole issue about not moving it locally for you.
What we need to check out is to see if you're still able to do a s77 CCA 1974 request, and to go after the charges. The problem is, if you've had a CCJ, the chances of argueing that the loan agreement is not enforceable is taken out of our hands.
I'm going to flag this to Bookworm to see what he says........
Hi there - thanks again - I did not state a final sum, I put what was left to pay in real terms but without interest, because BH put in statements with a quoted rate of zero percent at bottom, but actually used a higher rate for non paying customers and I could not figure it out re the term etc., with penalties to be deducted at times also. BH added their court feess to the statments also so maybe added interest on those too? I queried the validity of their figures and wanted the hearing to settle that an unemployed person paying reduced amounts should be allowed to agree a figure to pay etc etc., but did not get the opportunity. I think I paid two thirds of the total. The court initially ordered that I respond to BH statements indicating which items I agreed with, this I did, but again, it does not seem to have been looked at, and, is probably because I could not be there, I did advise. I dont understand why things are dismissed in this way by the courts when they are not with other claims, and are not present? My stupidity again.
UPDATE: have today spoken with both courts - it seems that this is my error in completing the forms and my counter claim was NEVER recognised - therefore I intend to make a separate claim for the charges. The rest of the monies incurred will have to be accepted by me for not reading/studying sufficiently in advance. My part admission was sent to BH and they rejected it. Meantime - I have just been told that BH are seeking a charging order against me and I will be called to hear on that - would this be an opportunity to address past mistakes? I could also consider an application to vary the order made originally, so I guess that should be done first, then the charging debate, then the penalties claim. Is that the right way round this time?? Apologies to members for their use of time in something that I could have done better! Any comment on my suggested redress route? with thanks
Send an immediate Subject access request and a section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 immediately, you need that information. Secondly, if you made a mistake on the forms and your defence was not heard, you have grounds for appeal (but that is unchartered territory for me), I'm still trying to flag this to one of the mods to get some of the bigwigs involved, but nothing much is happening.
Write a 'nice' letter to BH with the paragraphs:
I hereby am requesting that you divulge all information you currently hold on this account for myself under the Data Protection Act 1998, also known as a Subject access request. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.
In addition to this, I am issuing a request for all information available under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £1. You have 12 days in which to comply.
Flesh it out and get it into the post (sent Signed For, costs £1, and you get a tracking number). You need to start to prepare for the hearing if you get called to it and we need to see if we can get someone to tell me how to send a stay pending an appeal on the original verdict as your defence was denied.
[quote=m55dlc;599895]Send an immediate Subject access request and a section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 immediately, you need that information.............. .
I have the penaltycharges info from when the judge ordered it be sent, I dont know what a S. 77 is but will read through threads later, also have some leaflets I picked up from court, appeal will cost £100 and I have to get permission from the judge, if he/she thinks it worthy etc. One example listed is a "serious procedural or other irregularity in the court", but wont they say that the second hearing was an appeal sort of? The court clerk told me that I ticked the box for no counter claim on my forms??? - this doesnt sound right to me (?) furthermore the blue Admission Form is still sitting here in my file - which I didnt use, you know they said I made a part admission. Ive seen BH let lots of customers off their interest and make mthly payments to clear stuff - how come they singled me out for all these costs and court action whilst I was negotiating with them?! I should get the forms tomorrow but court said they started action on 22/2. HELP!!!
Replying to myself now! I should state I did not pay a further fee re the counter claim as I read the part about the claimant to pay, to mean the claimant BH, not me. So you see how hard it is for some of us! Meantime I see a variation order will cost £35 and my counter claim for penalties is £195 - I wanted to get the interest frozen/reduced or something but.......
campari2- i have sent a private message to a site helper who i hope will be able to respond to you and offer advice on this. The cavalry are on their way
Hi - back again - been looking thru the CCA - if my agreement was set up in Wickes for a kitchen - should I have signed another copy from BH? There copy to me states "non cancellable".
If it were still running I would have had until sept 07 to pay it off, rather than the amount being immediate as is now the case? Is there anything in this? thanks
I took me a while, but I got there in the end. I'll still watch the thread and add bits when I can, but you need some more specialist help.
Oh, section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974:
77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;
(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and
(c) the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.
And the penalty for not complying is:
(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.
If you want to read the rest of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, click on this link (I don't think you really want to read it, just keep it for reference.)
Right, I don't know how savvy you are with this sort of thing, but just remember this act is over 30 years old. It is still valid, but there are a number of things that have changed. If you want to use anything you find, please ask someone on here to see if it has been changed by something called a Statutory Instrument (SI)
Good luck, I'm not abandoning you and I'll make sure others come and help you along the way. You're in the right place (unless you've got loads of money, otherwise you can s** off and pay for a solicitor )
Hi - back again - been looking thru the CCA - if my agreement was set up in Wickes for a kitchen - should I have signed another copy from BH? There copy to me states "non cancellable".
If it were still running I would have had until sept 07 to pay it off, rather than the amount being immediate as is now the case? Is there anything in this? thanks
Hi - back again - been looking thru the CCA - if my agreement was set up in Wickes for a kitchen - should I have signed another copy from BH? There copy to me states "non cancellable".
If it were still running I would have had until sept 07 to pay it off, rather than the amount being immediate as is now the case? Is there anything in this? thanks
Do you have all of the paperwork given to you by Wickes? When you set up the loan did the guy from Wickes provide you with a copy signed by both you and them? If you didn't get a copy signed by Wickes at the time you took out the loan, did you get a copy of the agreement from BH that had been executed (i.e. signed by them?)
Read sections 60 to 65 of the act. We need to check the prescribed items are present on the agreement you signed.
Once you've read through the CCA a couple of times you'll see what I mean. Someone will provide you with a list of the prescribed items in due course.
Lloyds (Blk Horse) sued me and won
without success. I could not attend the first case in Northampton and asked for it to be transferred to MK. It was. Second judge would not hear it and thought I was quote trying for a second bite of the cherry unquote - he also stated that no judges had heard on penalties. So the extra fee was also lost. My counter claim does not seem tohave been heard at all and so I think I need to write to judge 1 and get the details......I will look through my paperwork later and try to post again with the outcomes. At the time I was not online so did it alone and could not quote any law/reason to the judge(2) to get him to see my point. Also, he would not comment on anothers work and I think I cannot do that kind of thing in small claims, so may have to simply apply for the charges within that loan as a separate claim, however, I am still stuck with their costs to pay and a CCJ !
Reply With Quote
Re: Lloyds (Blk Horse) sued me and won
Originally Posted by m55dlc
you may like to rephrase!!!
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