Thread: time4action v Lloyds TSB ***WON***

Hi,

I have just joined the group. My wife and I hold a joint account with Llloyds TSB and want to reclaim our charges. I initially thought it was going to be easy having read something on another site on the internet and in a local paper but having looked at this site now I am not sure - seems more complicated than I thought!
Initially decided to take action after we were charged a total of £105 charges in a month basically for exceeding our overdraft limit and then for unpaid cheques and standing orders.

I don't understand quite how the spreadsheet works with the interest calculation - how do you work out the total accrued interest for the interest you have paid on your charges? What interest rate do you use?
Our claim is £820 charges which is relatively small compared to some on here - are Lloyds likely to settle quicker if we don't claim interest (which probably won't amount to that much anyway) or would they think thay we are naive and don't know what we are doing?

Regarding the 6 year claim period - when does this begin and end? Is it from when they receive your initial claim?

I am sure the answers are in the forum somewhere and I will try and read through but don't have a lot of time at the moment as my family is under same duress - basically my father-in-law is terminally ill with only a few months to live. My wife is permanently signed off with stress but is tending to her father on a 24hr basis having to get up in the middle of the night etc to tend to him. She is also on flat, minimum sick pay so if we can get any money back off the bank it would help!

If any one wants to post the answers to save me looking - thanks for your help!

Incidentally we have a £750 overdraft facility with Lloyds which we are up to the limit on every month. If we start any kind of claim against them are they likely to demand we repay our overdraft (or worse :o )? Or does this count as retaliatory action?

Cheers
Banksrobus

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Thanks for that AL - already done the Subject access request letter successfully and had copy statements and list of charges sent back. I will now log onto the Lloyds forum as you suggest and have a look. Well actually I will do it tomorrow night as got to get bed as up early for a day shift tomorrow (the joys of shift work ).

Cheers
Banksrobus

Hi all,

Recently received back my list of charges as requested from ltsb. These are in the form of copy statements from Nov 2000 up to Sep 2001 and from then onwards they have just printed out sheets saying 'view statement entries'. These simply show the charges only and consist mainly of the following: O/draft interest, Account charge, overdraft usage fee and O/draft excess fee. I am a bit confused - our overdraft has fluctuated from £100 up to £750 over this period and I don't know the details. Regardless of what our overdraft amount was do I just enter the O/draft interest amount into the 'interest charged' column on the spreadsheet? Also they are not showing my account balance any more on these sheets and therefore I can't put this in the spreadsheets which means it will not be able to calculate the interest will it? Also the 'Overdraft usage fee' - is that the agreed yearly amount we pay for our overdraft? Or is it another way of describing an 'Overdraft excess fee'? Only we got charged £25 a time for this on Oct 2001 then again in Feb and Mar 2002! I know what the Account charge is because we have a Select Account so that is an agreed monthly fee.

Thanks for your help anyone!

Banksrobus

Hi,

I am about to submit a claim for £915. It is for a joint account with my wife. When I submit the initial claim letter does it have to be in both our names and do we both have to sign it? Also if it progressed as far as court - do we both have to appear if we put the claim in both names?
One other query - when we got our details of charges back from Lloyds from Sept 2001 onwards they have just listed purely charges and interest applied with no account balances (which means I don't think I can put this info in spreadsheet as it won't calculate). Also we have had a fluctuating agreed overdraft of between £100 and £750 at various dates so I wasn't going to bother trying to calculate the interest as it's too complicated and will be happy just to get the charges back.
I have included the following sentence in my letter - before I send it off what does everyone think?

'I calculate that you have taken £915 in unfair charges.
I enclose a schedule of the charges, which I am claiming with this letter. Please note that I am not currently claiming any interest on this amount. Should Lloyds TSB decide to contest this claim I would respectfully request that you send us a Breakdown of additional interest incurred as a result of these unfair charges as per the Data Protection Act in order that this figure also be included in our claim.'

Regards
Banksrobus

No thoughts on this then anyone?

Banksrobus

Hi all,
Sent in my preliminary approach for repayment of charges by recorded delivery on the 26th February - slightly adjusted the amount I was claiming to £895 to cover an exact 6 yr period up to 20th February.
Today I had a strange phone call from LTSB - the phone rang and when I picked up there was an answerphone style message in a computerised voice saying that Lloyds TSB had left a message for my name and instructing me to press number 1 if I was that person. (Strange because I had been sitting by the phone all morning - why didn't they want to speak to me direct ). When I connected, a message stated that I had failed to make payment on my Lloyds TSB credit card and gave me the option of paying now, in the next 7 days or one other option that I can't remember. I chose to make a payment in the next 7 days (knowing that I had set up a direct debit last month and something had obviously gone wrong). A message then acknowledged that I had chosen to make a payment in the next 7 days and then a telephone number was left if I wanted to discuss the matter further with a customer services person. I immediately rang the number and spoke to a customer services person - she rather abruptly asked me why I had failed to make payment on my Lloyds TSB Platinum card. I then pointed out to her that I had in fact set up a direct debit to make the payment the previous month which had been acknowledged in writing by Lloyds TSB and asked why they had not taken payment from my account. She replied that the first direct debit would not come out until March and I needed to make this payment manually. I informed her that the letter did not make clear that I had to make my February payment manually and that I did not realise it would take so long for the direct debit payment to come out. I then paid manually by card from another bank account over the phone. I asked her if I had been penalised for late payment and she said yes there would be a late payment charge of wait for it . . . £12! (Normally £20 - Lloyds have reduced their charges down folks!) I said that I did not feel this charge was fair as I had set up the direct debit to pay on time and it hadn't happened. She spoke to a supervisor and then confirmed this charge would be refunded as a 'gesture of goodwill' . I said 'thanks' but I didn't really consider it a gesture of goodwill as it was their error for taking so long to set up the direct debit and ended the call.
I thought about this call for a while - on the one previous occasion I defaulted on my credit card payment (down to sheer lack of memory!) they hadn't bothered to call me and had just added it on to my next statement with a penalty charge and I wondered if their call was connected to the fact that they had probably received my claim. I decided to call their Credit Card Customer Services in Brighton on the pretext that I was checking my direct debit next month would definitely happen and asked a couple of questions while I was on the phone. I asked the girl why they had called me about my missed payment on this occasion when they hadn't bothered previously 'Oh Sir if we can we try to ring people to remind them - we think it's better if they get a call'. I then asked about the late payment charge - I told the girl that I had been charged a late payment charge and understood it would be refunded. She confirmed this and I said: 'Isn't the charge normally £20? I have been told the charge is now £12 - have you reduced your charges?' The girl said 'Yes' so I then replied 'Is that in line with the OFT?' and she said 'What's that?' Imagine somebody working at a credit card company who doesn't know what OFT stands for?!!! I said 'It stands for Office of Fair Trading' and she said 'Oh I suppose'.
It will be interesting now to see if they start playing tricks as apart from the credit card we also have a £750 overdraft. I am in quite a good position though as I have another credit card with a high enough credit limit on it to transfer my Lloyds Platinum card balance to if I need to and we already have a separate bank account that we can transfer all our Lloyds bank account business to if needs be.

Banksrobus

Hi all,

ltsb have responded to my claim for £895 plus schedule of charges as follows:

'Thank you for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy about your account charges.
Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don't have enough in their accounts to cover payment, this always means extra work - and it has to happen very quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by settling up or increasing an overdraft, or tell customers we can't agree it. We feel it's fair to charge for this service.
Of course it's only fair too, that we're completely open about any charged-for services before you might need them. That's why we take care to give every new customer the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up-to-date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, through our helpline and on our website.
Just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid these charges. You can get an up-to-date balance at any of our cash machines, over the phone, on line and by weekly text to your mobile.
If you know a payment is going to take you over the agreed limit, you're welcome to see if there's anything we can do.
The Office of Fair Trading has published new guidelines on credit card default charges. We're still talking it through with them, but the important point is that the guidelines are about our 'default' charges that people pay when they break an agreement with us. This doesn't apply to your charges as these were for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. They are not default charges because you havn't broken your agreement. These are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.
I understand that you may also have some concerns about us sharing information about your relationship with is with the credit reference agencies we use. Id like to reassure you that this does not apply to bank charges; we only share what is known as white data, which is information about payments to your credit card, loan or mortgage accounts.
I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible - and why I can't agree to cancel your charges.
I hope this fully answers the points you raised with us. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help. If we cannot come to an agreement, I will provide you with details of the Financial Ombudsman Service so they can consider your complaint independently.
If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need for you to reply to my letter. If I have not heard from you by 26/04/2007 I will close my file, though of course I will re-open it should you come back at any point afterwards.'

My claim was sent to Customer Care Birmingham but this response is from the 'Team Manager' Customer Service Recovery Centre in Andover. Lots of nice words but basically they're giving me jack diddly squat .
So do I respond to this or just send back an lba saying I don't accept the contents of their letter? I take it I now send it to Andover . . .

All help gratefully received!

Brgds
Time4Action

I didn't bother with interest initially as we have had various different overdrafts authorised over a period of years I though it was too complicated to work out. Decided that if it goes to court we'll go for the 8% contractual interest but otherwise if they pay out we'll be quite happy!

Hi all,

Lloyds responded to my claim for bank charges (£895 - no interest claimed as I couldn't be arsed to work out) plus schedule of charges as follows:

'Thank you for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy about your account charges.
Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don't have enough in their accounts to cover payment, this always means extra work - and it has to happen very quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by settling up or increasing an overdraft, or tell customers we can't agree it. We feel it's fair to charge for this service.
Of course it's only fair too, that we're completely open about any charged-for services before you might need them. That's why we take care to give every new customer the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up-to-date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, through our helpline and on our website.
Just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid these charges. You can get an up-to-date balance at any of our cash machines, over the phone, on line and by weekly text to your mobile.
If you know a payment is going to take you over the agreed limit, you're welcome to see if there's anything we can do.
The Office of Fair Trading has published new guidelines on credit card default charges. We're still talking it through with them, but the important point is that the guidelines are about our 'default' charges that people pay when they break an agreement with us. This doesn't apply to your charges as these were for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. They are not default charges because you havn't broken your agreement. These are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.
I understand that you may also have some concerns about us sharing information about your relationship with is with the credit reference agencies we use. Id like to reassure you that this does not apply to bank charges; we only share what is known as white data, which is information about payments to your credit card, loan or mortgage accounts.
I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible - and why I can't agree to cancel your charges.
I hope this fully answers the points you raised with us. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help. If we cannot come to an agreement, I will provide you with details of the Financial Ombudsman Service so they can consider your complaint independently.
If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need for you to reply to my letter. If I have not heard from you by 26/04/2007 I will close my file, though of course I will re-open it should you come back at any point afterwards.'

Basically a load of old twaddle - giving me nothing!!!

I posted in my lba by recorded delivery on Tuesday, so I take it now is the time to get one of the court action packs?

Time4Action

Just an update - still waiting to hear from Lloyds having submitted my lba 7 days ago. I was double-checking through FAQS and 'things you need to know' about the 6yr claim bit. I realised that I submitted my claim on the 23rd February stating that I was claiming for the period 20th Feb 2001 - 20th Feb 2007 but now think maybe the dates should be as per the letter i.e. 23rd. The first of the charges on the schedule are 20th Feb 2001 for £10 and the last charge is 9th Feb 2007 so it is actually less than a 6yr period but does it have to tie up with the date of the letter? In which case I would have to knock off the first £10 charge (the next charge date is 27th Feb 2001 so that would make it ok). I am just really worried in case I submit a court claim and the judge throws it out on a technicality or something!
Also what is the best route MCOL or through county court? I am just making a simple money claim - no defaults.

Just about to send in my court claim against Lloyds but some advice please - I sent my initial complaint to Lloyds Customer Service address at Birmingham, received a reply from their Customer Recovery Centre at Andover so I sent my lba there addressed to their Team Manager, my account is actually held at my local branch in Crawley, West Sussex so whose address do I put as the claim going to?
Also I received a letter to day to say that my Lloyds TSB credit card is having its limit reducedto £5,200 (previously £6000). In the letter Lloyds state that they are 'committed to ensuring that our lending is responsible. This means that from time to time and in line with our terms and conditions, we review your credit limit to ensure that it is appropriate for you.'
Strange - I recently defaulted on one payment, this was due to the fact I had set up a direct debit which didn't work in time. I phoned Lloyds made the missed payment instantly over the phone and they agreed to waive the missed payment charge. That is the ONLY problem I have ever had with this account. No credit card company that I have ever been with has revised my limit DOWN. In fact in this day and age they seem to keep throwing more money at you. As my bank account is currently in credit (I am not even using my overdraft at the moment) - I suspect that this is retaliatory action because basically it is the only thing they can do as my account is in credit. Any one else agree? If I make a complaint about retaliatory action does it go to the OFT or Banking Ombudsman?

Hi Barty,
Thinking about putting a letter into the credit card section as follows, what do ya think?

'Thank you for taking the time to write to me and reduce down my credit card limit. In this day and age it is good to see a lender acting responsibly and attempting to reduce down people's debts. I have to say however that as a customer with a good credit history who has been with several credit card companies you are the first lender ever who has reduced down my credit limit without my request. I find this a little strange and hopefully you will be able to reassure me that this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I am about to take court action against Lloyds TSB over unfair banking charges. Obviously you will be aware under the Banking Code that this could be construed as 'retaliatory action'. Hopefully you will be able to demonstrate to the OFT, should I choose to make a complaint; that you have reduced down credit limits on other client's accounts who similar to myself have a good credit history and have not requested the reduction.'

Do you think I should go ahead with a complaint? Or just send in this letter and put the wind up their sails!

Cheers
time4action