Thread: Post dated cheque coming out early?

Posting this in the general thread as it could apply to any bank.

Last month I sent a post-dated cheque for a loan payment (to Citifinancial). the cheque was dated 28th april. I checked my account on the 26th and the cheque had come out, making me overdrawn. The following day I had a payment for £30 come out of the account. If the cheque hadn't come out early there would have been sufficient funds to pay the £30, however dear old HSBC want to charge me £25 'overdraft review' fees for both the cheque taking me over limit AND the following £30 payment. I immediately sent an email to HSBC customer services stating that it was a post dated cheque, they had let it come out early and I expected them to remove all charges related to the incident.

Had a nice reply (note: sarcasm) via email from the customers favourite, Mr Bowden.

""""""""""""""""""""""""T hank you for your e-message dated 27 April 2006.

Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in this response.

After reviewing your records, I can confirm that the Cheque (number:******) for amount GBP***.** was honoured on 26 April 2006.

Please be advised that we discourage customers from issuing post dated cheques as it can cause difficulties in managing the account if the cheques are presented for payment before the date on the cheque.

This is because the payee may not check the date of the cheque and pay it into their account without it being noticed by the receiving bank. Please note that we will not be able to prevent the payee from presenting post dated cheques into the account before the cheque date.

In this instance, I can confirm that the overdraft review fees of GBP50.00 have been applied to your bank account during charging period 11 April 2006 to 1 May 2006. These were due to the following :

26 April 2006 - GBP**** overdrawn
27 April 2006 - GBP**** overdrawn

The charges have been applied correctly. Please note that we will only charge an overdraft review fee of GBP25.00 every time you go overdrawn or further overdrawn without our agreement or exceed or further exceed an agreed overdraft limit. We also promise that we will not charge overdraft review fees for:

- Any borrowing not agreed with us in advance, if this is the first time this has happened in the last six months.

- Small overdrafts not agreed with us in advance (not more than GBP10.00) or for overdrafts above an agreed limit if the excess borrowing is small (not more than GBP10.00).

- Borrowing without an agreed overdraft limit if the borrowing is GBP50.00 or less and was for no more than 14 days in any one charging month.

In order to avoid a similar situation occurring in future I would recommend careful monitoring of your account to ensure your balance remains within your agreed overdraft facility.

If you wish to discuss this matter further, may I suggest that you contact us on 08457 404 404. """"""""""""""""""""""""" """


Obviously Citifinancial shouldn't have paid the cheque in early, but surely someone at the receiving bank should have noticed this? I am at the lba stage with HSBC anyway, so I still have time to add the £50 to my claim.

Who is responsible for paying me my charges back? Citifinancial for paying it in early, the receiving bank for taking a cheque with an advance date on, or HSBC for honouring it? (edit: would it me dishonourable of me to claim it back from Citifinancial for paying it in before the agreed date, then adding it on to my claim against HSBC as well? :O))

Thanks in advance!

Similar Threads:

• post dated cheque
• Help With Advan Gold Fee`s Back Dated
• its coming home its coming home my money is coming home
• Daily mail dated 12/7/06
• Charged when bank processed my post-dated cheque early

I would say that it would be HSBC since you have a contract with them that would seem to me to imply that they will make payments when they are properly authorised - surely this cheque was not properly authorised since it was not in date.

From the BBA website:

http://www.bba.org.uk/bba/jsp/polopo...603&view=print

"Sometimes customers 'post-date' a cheque. This is a date in the future and essentially means that the customer intends that the bank will not pay the cheque earlier than the date inserted on the cheque. If a post-dated cheque is paid in before the date on the cheque the bank may pay it or return it marked ?post-dated'. Most banks do not encourage post-dating cheques. You should be careful to ensure that a post-dated cheque is not presented to a bank before the date on the cheque. Some banks state in their terms and conditions that they will pay a post dated cheque on first presentation if the cheque is otherwise in order."

Yes, but then the BBA think that bank charges are perfectly in order!!

Very true. But I think the point about T&Cs in this case is relevant.

Ok, then, this might help:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ox/3537727.stm

I would say that whichever bank debited your account has to give it back.

The thing to bear in mind is that once a cheque has been scanned by the bank teller by running it through the wee machine which reads the numbers on the bottom, the teller then inputs the amount of the cheque. I don't think she also inputs the dat. thereafter, the whole thing is totally automated. The reason banks don't like post dated cheques is that they are simply not set up to deal with them. Instead they rely on the payee not presenting it before the intended date.

Interesting phraseology:

I can confirm that the overdraft review fees of GBP50.00 have been applied

I've never seen charges described like this before. Seems that they are trying to imply every time an account is about to go overdrawn a real person has a look and decides whether or not to allow it. Maybe they even hold a meeting or two. Not.

I'm definitely detecting trend in the communications coming out the banks of trying to imply a much clearer link between charges and actual effort on their part. All implied of course, nothing explicit which could be challenged.

Thanks for that info, obviously the bank aren't going to remove the pending charges then. I'll add the charges to my claim when it gets to the moneyclaim stage.

I'll also speak to Citifinancial tomorrow, as we agreed over the phone that I would date it the 28th, as that was that date I got paid. See if I can get a £50 reduction in this months payment.

Originally Posted by Robertxc

I would say that whichever bank debited your account has to give it back.

The thing to bear in mind is that once a cheque has been scanned by the bank teller by running it through the wee machine which reads the numbers on the bottom, the teller then inputs the amount of the cheque. I don't think she also inputs the dat. thereafter, the whole thing is totally automated. The reason banks don't like post dated cheques is that they are simply not set up to deal with them. Instead they rely on the payee not presenting it before the intended date.

Interesting phraseology:



I've never seen charges described like this before. Seems that they are trying to imply every time an account is about to go overdrawn a real person has a look and decides whether or not to allow it. Maybe they even hold a meeting or two. Not.

I'm definitely detecting trend in the communications coming out the banks of trying to imply a much clearer link between charges and actual effort on their part. All implied of course, nothing explicit which could be challenged.

I have never had any charges related to like this before either. Everything comes out of my account, and always has done no matter how much it takes me over my limit. They are usually referred to as 'over limit' charges though.

I'm still adding them onto my claim, unless of course they can prove in a court that it cost the £50 to make those 2 payments, and I have a funny feeling they won't.

It looks as if the rules relating to post dated cheque has changed over time.
Banks may not like people using pd cheques for a variety of reasons, but that is not
sufficient to ignore the customers instructions and pay the cheque.

I was surprised to see that some Banks now inform their customers not to post
date cheque and they will pay the cheque on presentation if everything else is in order regardless that the cheque is post dated. From the letter to you, I gather
that while your bank frown on the practice, it seems that it is not laid down in your T&C's. Therefore, whatever the smokescreen put up by your bank, they failed to
notice the date at the time of payment. It is a pity that you did not let us know
straight away, since the advice would surely have been to inform the Bank that you wished to stop the cheque-which would have been within your rights since the
cheque was not yet "in date."

It may also may be that Citifinancial 's bank missed the date on the cheque,
though not necessarily. If it was CF's policy not to accept pd cheques, and you
may have to ask them about that, then they may have instructed their bank to
accept the cheque anyway. Their is no liability on their bank in any event as they are the accepting bank, not the paying one.

CF may have been at fault in presenting the cheque early- especially if you pointed out to them what you had done, but the responsibility lies with your bank for paying it. They ignored your instruction not to pay the cheque until the due date.

I have been looking through the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 and the cheques Act 1992
trying to find reference to pd cheques without result. However I did come across
an interesting website [Citizens Advice]relating to banks in Jersey. I appreciate that they may be
subject to different laws than we are but I do agree with there conclusions. And
as far as I know, regardless of banks T&C's, I doubt the legality of them forbidding
the use of pd cheques. And I certainly do not agree they have the right to pay
a cheque early and not have to accept the consequences. Rant over. THe url is below

http://www.cab.org.je/131010.htm

Post-dated cheques
Nobody is obliged to take a post-dated cheque as, by law, a post-dated cheque does not count as settlement of a debt, however, the writing of post-dated cheques is not specifically prohibited under banking terms.

If a bank puts through a post-dated cheque before it's date and thus makes it's customer overdrawn, the charges will normally be refunded, depending on the bank's policy. Lloyds/TSB have a policy of not refunding charges incurred by a customer issuing a post dated cheque which it has processed too early. It is the bank's responsibility to check the date on a cheque. Credit Card companies will usually accept post-dated cheques, but a note should accompany the cheque pointing out the date for cashing. Some banks charge a fee for the use of a post-dated cheque to pay credit card bills. .

Advisers should note that by law banks should always refund charges incurred by the bank failing to carry out the customer's intructions. A claim by a bank that postdated cheques are not permitted, and/or that the bank has no responsibility for the consequences of cheques being cleared early should be challenged.

Rules & Regulations aside, I once sent a cheque for a birthday present dated on the day of birthday & it was cashed early. I didn't mind & they'd told me they'd done it but they had altered the date on the cheque. I used to think that any changes on a cheque had to be initialled but it would seem it doesn't make a difference.

If I'm sending a post dated cheque these days I always write "THIS CHEQUE IS POST DATED **/**/**"" across the top in big letters.

Are you sure banks can automatically tell if a cheque is more than 6 months old? I don't see how they could, for the same reason they're not set up to detect post dated cheques.

Could it be that they're just more observant in January because they know that there are often mistakes with the date?

I sent a reply to HSBC stating that someone had made an error in not checking that all the details on the cheque were correct, and that I refused to pay charges incurred due to their incompetence.

Here is the reply.

***********************

Dear Mr ********

Please accept my apology for the delay in responding to your e-message dated 8 May 2006.

As previously advised, we discourage customers from issuing post dated cheques, as it can cause difficulties in managing your account, if cheques are presented for payment before this date.

This is due to the payee, who may not check the date of the cheque and pay it into their account, without it being noticed by the receiving bank .

Due to the volume of cheques processed by the bank on a daily basis, you must assume that your cheques will be paid, on the date they are presented to your bank account.

I would recommend that you contact the payee and arrange an alternative method of payment. I regret to inform you that as the charges have been calculated correctly, no refund is due on this occasion.

I trust this clarifies matters.

Yours sincerely


Mr M Bowden
Manager Customer Credit Services

*************************

So basically they are saying that as they process so many cheques they can't be arsed to look at them properly.

These charges are due to come out of my account on the 01/06, but my moneyclaim will be lodged on the 18/05. As they have made it clear they won't refund can I add these charges to my moneyclaim or will I have to start pursuing them again next month? (which I have no qualms about doing)

I can't be bothered to keep banging my head against a wall with this d*ckhead!