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I have sent a CCA to 3 DCA's none have purchased the debt they are just acting for the credit card companies. One has closed the case sent my cheque back and sent the case back to the bank. My question is if the DCA does not comply is the debt un-enforcable by the DCA or by the actual credit card company ?. Thanks for looking.
The purpose of sending the cca request is to allow the pursuer to sunstantiate what merit they have for chasing the debt, if they have no merit for this then they shouldnt be pursuing you, the question is without buying the debt are they actually part of the original debtor. They have failed to respond to your cca request and therefore are in default do not pay them anything, you could wait another 30 days then report them to TS for non-compliance, you could send new cca to the original debtor and also if the DCA didnt buy the debt and didnt have the deed of assignment then they have no legal right to pursue you as i said unless they are part of the company in which case they should be reported for non-compliance.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and clarifying that. Under a SAR should you expect a copy of the signed agreement which you ask for under a CCA. All I got back from Morgan Stanley was my statements even though I used the template which asks for everything.
When my accounts were passed to the DCA the originator would not speak to me and directed me to the DCA. They originator however kept adding interest to my account, can I claim this back as they had passed the account to someone who has no legal right to chase me and would not deal with me ?
Under a S.A.R - (Subject access request) should you expect a copy of the signed agreement which you ask for under a CCA. All I got back from Morgan Stanley was my statements even though I used the template which asks for everything.
I assumed that one of my original creditors would include the CCA in with my SAR info. However, I made a separate CCA request for the heck of it (Only £1 + recorded postage, so nothing to lose) and they returned the cheque with no CCA... saying no fee was necessary (not a letter, just a ticked box on a form). They have now defaulted ?! The SAR arrived yesterday... and there is no CCA in there either ?!
It may therefore be a good idea to make a separate request to see what Morgan Stanley do. Also, if you believe the SAR info. to be incomplete, then remind them of their obligation to provide you with everything under The Data Protection Act, 1988). If you think the CCA may have been archived however.... then just send a separate request for that.... a much quicker result for you in 12 days from sig. if they default.
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I have sent a CCA to 3 DCA's none have purchased the debt they are just acting for the credit card companies. One has closed the case sent my cheque back and sent the case back to the bank. My question is if the DCA does not comply is the debt un-enforcable by the DCA or by the actual credit card company ?. Thanks for looking.
Hi
Only the creditor is obliged to respond to a CCA 77/78 request for a copy of your executed agreement. If the DCA has not bought the debt then the original lender is still the creditor and the CCA request should be sent to them - and they must comply within the time frame.
With regard to your SAR, if you sent a request for all of your personal data then they must send everything that is identifiable as relating to you. This can include notes, internal memos. correspondence to and from you, notes of phone calls etc. If they have not sent this (or made a statement that they do not hold any other data) then they have not complied with the SAR.
Also you mention that you believe that the DCA has no legal right to demand money from you. If the DCA is acting as an agent for the creditor then they have authority from them to collect on their behalf. However, I understand that under the DPA any third party that starts processing your data shold have sent you a 'Fair Processing Notice' to explain how they will use and protect your data.
Your debt dispute is therefore with the creditor only but you could do as I have done and write to the DCA stating that until you receive a copy of the original credit agreement you do not acknowledge having given them (the DCA) permission to process your personal data. Tell them you request that they 'cease and desist' immediately from processing your data until they can prove that they already have your consent. This might shut them up for a while!
Hi there again "Also you mention that you believe that the DCA has no legal right to demand money from you. If the DCA is acting as an agent for the creditor then they have authority from them to collect on their behalf"
So they can ask for payments without proving they have the authority as in a deed of assignment, original debtor or not they must be controlled under the cca to chase up payments which in turn makes them answerable to a cca request. Surely if this wasnt the case i could contact kane33 and say pay me for abc who you owe money and i dont need to prove this?
When sending your CCA request remember to state 'I do not acknowledge this debt' unless you have already acknowledged it in writing. Verbal acknowledgement (i.e. over the phone) does not count for limitation purposes.
So they can ask for payments without proving they have the authority as in a deed of assignment, original debtor or not they must be controlled under the cca to chase up payments which in turn makes them answerable to a cca request. Surely if this wasnt the case i could contact kane33 and say pay me for abc who you owe money and i dont need to prove this?
Hi George
If the debt has not been sold to the DCA then there is no deed of assignment - this is a legal document that is only required upon sale of a debt. If the DCA is just an agent for the original creditor then it is the original creditor who is still responsible for the CCA requirements governing the original credit agreement, including the s77/78 request.
DCA's are governed by the CCA as far as licences go but only the creditor is obliged to comply with a s77/78 request.
If the debt has been sold, on the other hand, the deed of assignment would make the DCA the new creditor and then they would have to comply with the request and not the original creditor.
Hi Inkogneetoh Yes the DCA's are controlled by the cca as in licenses and if they are acting as an agent for the debtor then they are seen as the pursuer, (third party or not) if this is the case then surely they have to substantiate this by means of a cca request?
Old addage no contract no loan why pay.
Are you saying that an agent has no legal requirement to answer a cca request, what about a SAR?
This is very interesting.
It is only the creditor who has a duty to comply with this request under the ACT:
77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,— ... etc. etc.
78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,— ...etc. etc.
The Act defines the creditor as :
“creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;
So, if the DCA is merely acting as agent for the recovery of debt then the creditor has not changed, it is still the original lender.
If court proceedings are threatened, whether by the DCA or the original creditor (where the debt has not be sold), it is the creditor who will bring them - the DCA is not a party to the agreement.
Thanks Pam that clears it up, have been so busy with banks up till now and find this side really interesting, will finish off the banks this month and start with all of this, thanks for this.
Just a thought as to the holding of personal data i was thinking if the AGENT is actually part of the original debtor then they have permission if this is the case then would they need to comply with the cca request.
The holding and processing of personal data has nothing to do with the CCA and does not affect rights and duties under a credit agreement.
Under the DPA, if the DCA is an agent of, and shares the same data controller as, the original creditor then I believe they can share data lawfully.
If the DCA has bought the debt then they would only be permitted to process your personal data if the original agreement that you signed included your consent for it to be passed on in this way. But any 3rd party to whom personal data is passed should send the data subject (you) a 'Fair Processing Notice' stating how they will use and protect your data. Haven't heard of any DCA who has actually done this yet though! Tut Tut!
Pam, I had been trying to make short settlements with all my accounts, I then found this site and CCA three DCA and SAR four banks. This was to then get charges removed before sorting out a short settlement.
However when they select a DCA to collect on there behalf they the bank refuse to talk to you, however they continue to add interest. Can you claim this back as me the debitor, as I understand it, do not have to talk to there DCA as they are not the creditor. I just seem to be getting spanked with interest for them using DCA's that dont even pass on your settlement offers, which in turn delays the whole process. On the whole my charges to be claimed back will be much less than the interest they continue to apply. Rep points where rep points are due.
When you say the creditor is charging interest, do you mean contractual interest under the original agreement? If so, I would think they are entitled to do this as they (the creditor) still retains the contract with you.
If I were in your shoes, I would sit tight and wait for them to comply (or not) with the CCA request. If no 'true' copy of the agreement is forthcoming within 12 working days of your request then they are in default until they do provide it. When in default, they cannot enforce the agreement, which means they cannot charge interest during that period.
I would also wait for the further calender month to expire and then they would have committed a criminal offence. You could go for refund of charges after this and would have their default (if it happens) as leverage. This is just how I would handle it personally and you of course must decide for yourself. Everything depends, of course, on how they respond to your CCA request.
Regards, Pam
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Pam,
Thanks for taking the time to help me. I originally SAR them but I will now send a CCA to all of them as this, if they do not comply, gives me more space. I understand it is only advice but do you think I should make token payments each month, does this slow down there processes ?. If they do default have you heard of anyone making them a short settlement offer as a 'gesture of goodwill' to close the account ?. Many thanks again.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. If the creditor is unable to supply a 'true' copy of the original credit agreement within the time-scale (12 working plus 30 further days) then they are unable to enforce the agreement at all without the permission of the court.
If they do supply it at a later date then they can enforce, but by then they would have committed a criminal offence which would not look good for them in any court proceedings. I personally would not make any payments until and if they send the correct copy of the agreement but it's up to you. If you have put 'I do not acknowledge the debt' on your CCA request letter though, it would be rather contradictory to then send them money.
Regards, Pam
VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE: http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9
Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.
DCA-CCA Clarification
's none have purchased the debt they are just acting for the credit card companies. One has closed the case sent my cheque back and sent the case back to the bank. My question is if the DCA does not comply is the debt un-enforcable by the DCA or by the actual credit card company ?. Thanks for looking.
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Originally Posted by Kane33
