Thread: Jade VS Barclaycard

HI there, well today received statements FINALLY. After initial letter… 40 days came and went and 7 day court warning and then another 7 days. All present and correct the enclosed letter states:

" Statements held prior to May 2004 are stored on microfilm which is a means of storage that does not fall within the definition of "relevant filing system" under the data protection act 1998 ("the act") nor within the bounds of what we are obliged to provide in response to your data Subject access request as set out in the information commissioners office website ICO – Information Commissioner's Office

The information commissioner has indicated his intention to amend this guidance. it is therefore as a gesture of goodwill to you, our customer (I haven’t been for some time actually), and in the light of this proposed change that we enclose copies of our pre May 2004 statements as you requested although we take a different view to the information commissioner's office on whether these fall within the definition of "relevant filing system" as set out in the Act.
This information we have enclosed relating to this account is all that we hold.


Karen Thompson (Mrs)"

After having financial problems they then put me on a payment plan but even though I wrote the correct letter and asked them to freeze interest etc they would not and so for the last couple of years that I have been on this payment plan I've been charged 1.000% interest (of my standard balance apparently) adding on around £8.00 per month extra. Despite the fact that a payment plan is designed so that you are paying the debt off and not for them to keep adding to it. Is this allowed to be claimed back at all?
After over two years of paying off 20.00 then 10.00 a month my debt doesn’t seem to have gone down at all. I now owe them £789.57. When at its highest level I owed them £829 .I have worked out that charges amount to £452. So I would still owe them £337.57 after charges were claimed back.
Also despite having a regular payment plan with Barclays solicitors I think and them agreeing to this would they be entitled to then ask for the whole outstanding balance after charges are refunded?
They have made me offers on occasion that they would accept £327 as full settlement of the account but I haven’t been able to afford to pay that big chunk unfortunately.
Opinions and advice welcome
Jade

Hi Jade
I saw your comments on martins thread and think we may be in a roughly same boat.
I (my son actually!) started with barclaycard in Sept 2003. quickly went to his limit and couldnt afford to pay back. interest charged was 1.873% (APR 24.94%, daily rate of 0.06%).
However, like you, an agreement to pay £20 per month was reached. Unlike you, my son buried his head and did not always pay.
Like your account, in April 2004 the interest applied suddenly dropped to 1.00% (APR 12.68%, daily rate of 0.033%).
After dealing with several debt collection agencies the debt of £580 was actually sold to HFO services (on 11th October 2006) while I was awaiting the SAR from Barclaycard and had issued an lba with estimated charges.
No payments have actually been paid at all to HFO (and I dont think ever will be now!). I notified them we were in dispute, which put it 'on hold'. then issued a request for the original agreement document together with my £1 postal order. After about 2 & 1/2 months, a shoddy and illegible photocopy was sent, but most of the prescribed terms were missing. i had already written to HFO, telling them it was now unenforcable without a court order and that I believed they had committed a criminal offence. I repeated this after receiving and rejecting the photocopy. so far, have not heard anything and don't expect to. Debt unenforcable.
Back to Barclaycard and working out my claim with interest:
I was also charged PPI for the first 16 months, even though it was never requested or applied for. So this is also being claimed back with interest.
I believe that to work out the interest on a barclaycard account like this is complicated. Looking at statements, it appears as if interest was not applied at all from Jan 2006 until the sale of the debt on 11th Oct 2006, except for March 2006 statement where it was added. Seems very strange!
anyway, in my case I am going to work out each individual charge and put into my own schedule for my N1 claim.
It will be something like this:

Late Payment Charge #1, 13/nov/2003 £20. Interest charged from 13/nov/2003 to 12/april/2004 @ APR 24.94%, and interest charged from 13/April/2004 to 12/March/2006 @ APR 12.68%: = ??

PPP Charge #2, 13/nov/2003 £2.69. Interest charged from 13/nov/2003 to 12/april/2004 @ APR 24.94%, and interest charged from 13/April/2004 to 12/March/2006 @ APR 12.68%: = ??

... and so on till I get to the charges/PPP from April 2004, which will only have been charged at the rate of APR 12.68%. As my statements dont' show any interest added after March 2006, I'm not going to claim after this point.
I am not going to confuse issue by claiming 'compounded' interest, but will add S69 8% interest on the total amount. I do hope this helps.
Last thought. I presume your debt has not been sold yet. Have you tried a CCA request yet? If my case is anything to go by, Barclaycard dont have an enforcable copy and would not be able to comply within 42 days. This would make it unenforcable without a court order and at the very least, allow you to legitimately stop payments for a breathing space!

Hi Jade
I'm not sure who CSL are, are they a debt collection agency (DCA) acting on behalf of Barclaycard? If so, then it is still Barclaycard that you actually owe the money to. Only if B'card actually sell the debt, does the debt belong to a DCA. This is what eventually happened to me.
Next, i am by no means an expert and hopefully someone with more knowledge will read this and correct anything i might say that is not correct., but this is how I see the interest calculation part of the debt. I apologise for being very wordy here and will try and put it to laymans terms.
Each of your early statements will state a monthly charge for interest, expressed in monthly percentage terms. ie 1.873%. It is immaterial whether this is for purchases or for cash, as the interest Barclaycard are charging you is the same for both types. So we just need to concentrate on the fact that Barclaycard have been charging you 1.873% (this is equivalent to 24.94% annually [APR]) on your existing balance.
This changed to a lower interest rate charge of 1.00% per month (this is equivalent to 12.68% annually [APR]) from the point that your statement states "interest on your standard/cash balance ... 1.00%".

so, now I have all my late charges etc listed and I need to work out how much interest Barclaycard have taken from me for each of these charges, in order to claim that back too ...

Say for instance that when you examine your statements you find that unfair charges were first applied to your account in Jan 2004 and the interest rate stated on your statement is 1.873%, then that is your starting point. now, I think you need to find out at what date the interest rate was lowered to 1.00%. Let's say it reduced from Jan 2006 for the sake of argument and is still being applied now.
so, for an unfair charge of £20 applied to your account in Jan 2004, you have been paying interest at a monthly rate of 1.873% on this charge, but only until Jan 2006. At this point, your balance (made up of legimate purchases, unfair charges and interest applied at monthly rate of 1.873%) bagan to attract the lower interest as it was reduced to 1.00% and you have continued to pay that interest on each and every charge until the present time.
With these interest changeover dates in mind (Jan 2006 for sake of example), I think the easiest way to calculate what Barclaycard now owe you is (using the exell spreadsheet) firstly concentrate on only the charges applied prior to the 1.00% changeover date, jan 2006.
Change the date on the spreadsheet to cover from jan 2004 to jan 2006 and NOT the present. Insert your charges/balances etc with an APR of 24.94. you should now have an individual total of 'charge+interest' for each charge made during this earlier period.
Opening a second saved copy of the spreadsheet, change the dates to Jan 2006 to the present and the APR to 12.68%. Insert your NEW totals ('charge+interest') of the earlier charges with date for all as Jan 2006. then insert all your charges/balances incurred since jan 2006 with true date incurred.
You should now be able to work out the total interest that has been applied to each individual charge.

I do hope this explanation helps and not hinders! If I need correcting please do so!

They don't miss a trick do they? They charged me 1% which is better than nothing but I subsequently went to CCCS who put me on a payment plan and are currently paying all my creditors - and the interest is frozen. CCCS (consumer credit councilling service) is recognised by all banks/credit/storecards so you might find it useful to contact them. They can also be found via the internet.

If, when you have worked out the charges you will be claiming back, Barclaycard owe you money you can ask for a cheque with your prelim and then lba letters. Just make sure you pay off your debt when you win as the CCCS will take a dim view of any client of theirs on a plan and then spending the winnings, 'cos Barclaycard or any other company will complain that they have not been paid off. Hope this is useful and sock it to them. Sally

No the cccs is not an agency. It is a registered charity whose function is to help people pay off their debts. They will arrange for the interest to be frozen. Unfortunately, like me, you will not be able to claim that 1% back. However, if you can afford to pay off £10 a month without interest being added on you will be better off eventually.

You can use this site to claim unfair charges back like 'overlimit charge, arrears charge etc'. If it were me I would contact the cccs tomorrow and carry on doing lots of reading on this site. Interest calculation spreadsheet
is useful. I like Vampiress's spreadsheets in her 'chambers' which you can find
in the bottom right hand corner. You might find it easier to go for statutory with it's 8% which you claim when you get to court. This is how I started anyway. Just do a lot of reading before you decide which route to go down Hope this has helped.

Sorry, don't bother clicking on link above. I've done it wrong!!!! Just enter 'Interest calculation spreadsheet' in general and that will get you there. If I had brains..........

Hi Jade
sounds like sally has a good choice for you to read up on, the cccs. I know if there seemed no way out, I'd rather my £10 each month was coming off the debt than just £3 - ish after their outrageous interest charges.
I dont think you can simply claim back all your interest at 1.00% just because Barclays are total swines - but you can certainly claim back all the interest charges that have been applied to your unfair charges. As seen by the example below, this can be a very tidy sum indeed.
Please remember that your debt is receiving interest compounded upon interest, compounded upon interest etc etc every single month! AND, that some of this compounded interest is a direct result of your unfair charges.
This is why its important to claim them back, but also to do it very accurately, so that when you are challenged in court (if it goes that far), you can justify your claim, exactly, to the last penny!
Trying to 'average' out interest between the two rates you have received doesnt quite fit the argument.
For instance, you start off 2 months ago with a balance of £0.00. an unfair charge of £20 is received with an interest rate of 1.873% per month. 1 month ago your new balance would be £20.00 plus interest of 0.37p making a grand total of £20.37.
This month, interest is charged on your new balance (including the previous interest charge). The new interest to be added is 0.38p this time, making a new balance of £20.75. I hope this example shows how quickly the interest can add up when compounded over several months, and also why its important if you are going to claim this interest as well, that it is done as accurately as possible and so that you can justify your calculations fully if challenged (even if you get it slightly wrong!).

Good. I'm glad you're getting there with it!
To be honest, I'm not an expert and don't exactly know what the full difference there is between contractual and compounded ... i know there are threads on this discussion alone and hopefully someone else will read this and come in with an answer.

The APR rate of 24.94 is what Barclaycard apply. APR is the annual equivalent that they must state by law. However, there charge is based on the monthly 1.873% charge, and I think that they apply this charge on a daily basis. I think the spreadsheets might be geared up to working on an annual rate, but still come out with roughly the same result?

The claim date can be altered. ie, if you think by the time you actually submit a claim, after lba letter etc, and you judge the court date to be maybe 6 weeks later, then simply adjust the 'claim date' for the sake of your calculations!
I have just been calculating my own charges and have used two spreadsheets. The first one had all charges from Oct 2003 to may 2004 (all at 1.873% per month). I had put the claim date of 14 May 2004 on the front of spreadsheet. This gave me a total figure of £126.41.

I had to remember that Barclays still continued to charge interest at the lower rate of 1.00% on these charges till the date they sold the debt on.
So, on the second spreadsheet for my claim, I adjusted the interest rate to 12.68% APR, adjusted the claim date to present and began with an entry of £126.41 titled 'Estimate of previous charges + interest charged at 1.873%' with date of 15 May 2004. Then i added all over charges at 1.00% and this gave me a grand total for my claim. Would very happily email my spreadsheets if they might help.

Jade, you are dead right. It is the little details that drive us barmy in our determination to get it absolutely right. And, its always better to take a little time, ask for someones advice, and make sure that we do get what is rightfully ours, rather than losing out over a small detail.

Hi Jade
Yes, on the second spreadsheet, i 'carried forward' the balance from the previous spreadsheet. This is because the earlier charges at 1.873% did not simply stop attracting interest when Barclaycard changed the interest rate to a lower one, they just attracted the lower rate instead! Its all very confusing, I admit! And, its why its important to put in the correct dates 'from' and 'to' on the two spreadsheets.
I think this link gives a reasonably simple way of explaining how credit card companies calculate their interest charges: Average Daily Balance & Adjusted Balance - What do they mean
I have used mindzai's new credit card spreadsheets which are absolutely great, and I have today sent off a final lba with them attached as schedules.
However, before I am very wary of having a claim contested purely because I may have over estimated on the amounts of interest and i think there may be a slight problem with one of the columns. So, I may well recheck with pen, paper and calculator before subm,itting my NI court Claim form. My view is i would rather get most back than none.
I too have been following the 'contractual' argument. I have renamed the interest taken by Barclaycard over the years as 'initial debited interest' and then 'compounded debited interest', because I understand what these terms mean!
And in the interest I will charge on the 'compounded debited interest' i am going to use the statutory 8% (s69) rather than opting for reciprocal contractual interest (At Barclaycard's rate). Whether one or both methods are more likely to be contested is immaterial to me. I am going forward with a method I understand more easily, and feel more comfortable with. Although adding contractual in my case, would add maybe another £90 onto total, I am still not going to go for it and am happy with my own way forward.