Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I suppose that it may make you wonder why this forum has been set up with different places for each bank?
I am pretty sure that the answer is going to be pretty well the same as with the other banks.
This probably means that when you approach them they will be irritated and rather incredulous that you are questioning them in this way.
They will be amazed that "you just don't get it" that you signed a contract some time ago agreeding to their penalty charges and their right to change them from time to time.
When yo initaially ask them for your money back they will refuse.
When you start insiting then they may offer it back to you as a matter of goodwill.
They may simply say no and remind you of the terms and conditions of your contract.
If you try to get old bankstatement they may try to charge you a high price.
If you threaten the Data Protection Act they may let you have the statements.
If you issue a letter before action, that may produce the money out of "goodwill".
If you issue a summons they may again show "goodwill"
If they defend and the court date draws nearer they may show some "goodwilll".
If the matter is actually heard in open-court, then ... no that's too fantastic, I was getting carried away with myself.
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One new aspect which has occurred is that there have been a couple of instances of banks closing or threaten to close accounts.
It would be very wise to open a couple of new accounts elsewhere. get chequebooks, Internet access, debit cards etc befoe you lock horns with the bank. If they close your account it will be tricky to open another one on terms that you want. Be prepared.
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Please give us a blow by blow account of what happens as you proceed. You can be certain that your news will be welcome and that you will be well supported.
I sent a letter to all 3 of the "Banks" on the 10/1/06 and gave them 7 days to refund my money.....
none have acknowledged the letter however, one has responded via passing it over to collecting agency, another phoned me up constantly trying to say we could do this we may do that etc etc. but not getting to any point.
however I have had nothing from HSBC at all, I assume I should just make a claim with the courts now. Are they allowed to just ignore me ?
Surely they have to keep this as a record ? Are they breaking any law ?
Do I state in my claim that I first sent them a letter and got no responce at all ?
As in the letter I said not complying would result in further action, Am I jumping the gun or doing the best thing ?
You say that you have just worked out the figures and now you are going to start your claim tomorrow.
Do you mean that you are going to issue a summons tomorrow?
I'm not one for wasting time with the banks but if that is what you are doing then it seems a little quick.
If you are clear as to the money you want then send them a letter outlining very clearly what you want and how it is calculated. Send it by recorded delivery. Give them 7 days. No reply - then a letter before action giving them, say another 7 days.
Setting out your position clearly in a letter will get your argument well established in your mind which will help if it ever goes to court.
Also, I don't think many people realise it but if you issue your summons at the court office then you can simply attach your letter as your particulars of claim.
On the summons in the section of particulars you simply put a brief statement such as "The Claimant is/was a customer of the Defendant Bank from DATE to DATE. The claim is for £xxxx in respect of disproportionate or unreasonable penalty charges plus interest levied by the defendant between DATE and DATE as per attached letter dated the DATE."
Make sure also that you finish up with your s.69 statement that you are claiming interest on the lot.
This is quite adequate to begin your claim and saves you a load of time. No point in repeating the whole tedious argument again and again.
If they defend then you can supply a more detailed reply to their defence when you see it and also supply further particulars of your own claim.
Yes, by all means hand the letter in at the branch. Take the name of the person who receives it from you.
You can have your summons served on the Branch or on the registered office. The Branch is probably better as it is probably in an area convenient to you and you won't then have to provide an argument to the Court as to why the case should be conducted in your local court rather than the court in the locality of the registered office.
(The normal rule is that the case is heard in the county court near to where the Defendant lives or works.)
Serve on your local branch and you can say that they are the defendant and also that you want the case heard in the area in which the contract was made (another rule of jurisdiction).
many thanks, Crazy as it may sound I'm going witha meeting with the bank manager route....... want to the responce more than anything, wheather they laugh at you or get angry.
must be quote of the week from credit control services at HSBC HQ
I politely informed the person that I do not purchase any papers nor do I read them apart from Angling Times.
wish me luck tomorrow, but when I made the appointment they asked if I could let them know what its about so they can prepare themselves, when i said what its about they did not have any appointments till next week LOL
After being on hold for too long i got in tomorrow afternoon, but I said I will be conveying my arguement in letter format and we can discuss it from there.
I think my approach will be effective, if it is I will let you have a copy for the site.... far better in my opinion to use this format rather than the bank give you there veiw and you have to think on your toes, this way they can see your case and not need question you just read.
it may be harsh but, I have asked for an agreement on the day otherwise I shall issue summons on that day.
No harsher than bouncing a direct debit or standing order at one second past midnight because it would put an account a penny over the limit and then charging MORE than the direct debit would have cost to pay out and insist that the fee is legitimate.
The meeting took place, though I wash I had a dictarphone as the manager admitted that that they were "penalty charges", then I asked to see the banking terms and conditions.... then asked for him to point out where it said penalty charge. It obviously was not there.
I issued letters not previously responded to and made complaints with regard to previous corraspondance on the phone, the whole lot was taken and it was to be investigated. They did not say they was going to give me anything.
I feel I fully took control of the meeting with a agenda which I also gave a copy to the Manager.
I got a full and concise anwser to each point I made, but they did pick up on a wrong date(bugger)...... he did not seem to impressed with my theroy that I was owed interest and the way I produced my spreadsheet once I was questioned on the matter that I was being very vauge when I just said all charges and the type.
The offer was I would get a reply letter while I was there, this gives them 10days for an investigation.
My intended responce is to reply to this letter stating that if i'm not kept up to date on the progress of there investagations or make a unsatisfactory offer, then I shall default to issing summons.
I intend on putting up all my letters as long as I'm not making myself prone to legal action.
I can't see that putting up the letters would cause any problem for you unless they are marked "confidential" in which case you would have to examine them more carefully to judge whether you put them up or give a summary.
The letters could not be defamatory of the bank personnel unless he starts slagging off his work colleagues .
We'll be looking forward to getting your next news bulletin.
well since I seem to of made an impression and now in correspondance directly with my branch manager, this is the only chance they have... its kinda helped me as I would have had problems submiting my claim tomorrow as I don't even have the forms for my claim and the online claim form is just not big enough to state my case, the example on bankchargeshell is just to big to fit it all in(think the limit is 1080 char) so if anyone knows of a shorter one please advise me and others.
Ah sod it, the credit companies are going to get there summons asap, this is due to the propect of employment and want this all out of the way before I start a new job, thing is the dpa states I have to give them 40 days ? is this the safest way or shall I try say less... not knowing the ins and out and how the act its hard to make a desision
I you are claimimg the return of charges on the basis that they were unlawful - which they are, then you should certainly b asked to be put inot the position that you would have been had they not been applied at all.
On the other hand, don't forget that the bank is entitled to apply penalties - but just not at that level. This means that each time that you have incurred a penalty it does tend to indicate a genuine transgressons. The bank might well be justified in changing the status of your account because you are not conducting it correctly.
On the other hand if you can show that it was the level of the bank charges one month which caused you to be overdrawn or have insufficient funds the next month - in other words that the bank has caused the porblem, then yes you should be able to restore your position.
Making that happen, however, is another problem entirely.
Today I made another vist to the court to get some general advice on procedures, they have got about a 1000 leaflets. None of them are what you want - LOL, where is the one titled "If you are the 999th person to ask these question this is the leaflet for you Mr Bank charges claiment"
Any way I got a couple of chunky books on Bank Law and a few thinner ones to get used to county court/small claims track.
I found the Bill from 1999 on the scottish penalty clause law, seems to make the situation clear cut on the way it stands,
Annoyingly I found a bit brought up in the legalities section, did the bank write this ?
My first case...
before please ?
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