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    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay


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Few months back I was buying some weight lifting gear from Argos. There is a loading bay 50m away. I parked there and opened my boot ready, as it would have been impossible to carry the gear round town.

 

I got to Argos and realised (as soon as I walked in) that I had left my wallet in the car. I went back to the car (less than 1 minute after parking) to find a traffic warden taking photos etc.

 

I explained what I was doing, and that I was "loading" my car with heavy weight lifting equipment, and asked why I was getting a ticket?

 

She told me I had the "wrong type of vehicle" and that if it was an estate car I would have probably been ok.

 

I have since paid the ticket.

 

I was annoyed that the warden was obviously hiding out somewhere, and the lack of discression that they were willing to use (It was clearly proveable that I was collecting heavy weight lifting equipment). My only alternative would have been to park on double yellows outside of Argos whilst I nipped in.

 

Just to help get this off my chest, [edit]

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The "wrong type of vehicle" quote is absolute crap.

 

There is nothing whatsoever in parking legislation that restricts loading/unloading exemptions to any class of vehicle.

 

There may be a natural presumption by TWs and PAs in favour of commercial vehicles, this is not backed up by law.

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Many years ago the tax disc for all cars was issued as "Private". To avoid this sort of confusion almost all cars these days are taxed as "PLG" or Private/Light Goods. You are therefore taxed to carry Light Goods and are eligible to load your vehicle subject to normal loading restrictions.

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  • 2 months later...
Actually there is a difference in private and commercial vehicles, different rules apply when loading.

 

I got a ticket thrown out when I accidentally left wifes my blue disabled badge in car when loading car in a loading only area the warden booked me when I was loading a brand new electric wheelchair for my wife.

 

Warden would not even discuss this was just arrogant.

 

dpick:mad:

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Actually there is a difference in private and commercial vehicles, different rules apply when loading.

 

Maybe in the approach of councils, but absolutely not in law.

 

Legally, there is no difference between the two; councils just tend to be a little more lenient with obviously commercial vehicles

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Guest tlusnoc

Loading and unloading bays are intended for commercial vehicles only and not for shoppers. If everyone decided to park in these, then how are deliveries going to be made. And it is no good saying I will only be 5 minutes etc., for if a wagon turns up, where is the driver meant to park in the meantime?

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Guest tlusnoc
Actually, they're intended for loading and unloading by any vehicle, commercial or otherwise. It is the activity being carried out that determines whether the vehicle may be parked there, not the type of vehicle.

 

 

That is totally wrong, they are for the delivery and collection by commercial vehicles (that can include a car) and are not intended for shoppers.

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tlusnoc, please post the regulation that states that all loading bays are for commercial goods only. This may clarify your assertion. Until then, I'm afraid I have to go with patdavies in that private vehicles are classed as Private/Light Goods.

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Loading and unloading bays are intended for commercial vehicles only and not for shoppers. If everyone decided to park in these, then how are deliveries going to be made. And it is no good saying I will only be 5 minutes etc., for if a wagon turns up, where is the driver meant to park in the meantime?

 

The same place that most of them park when another shop's wagon is there

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That is totally wrong, they are for the delivery and collection by commercial vehicles (that can include a car) and are not intended for shoppers.

 

Eh, no, it's not totally wrong. In fact, it's perfectly correct. I did not say that a loading bay is intended for shoppers. I said that it is intended for loading / unloading. I think you'll find a clue in the name... :)

 

There are a number of reasons why a loading bay would be used for non-commercial purposes. For example, your statement implies that somebody would not be allowed to turn up in a van and unload new furniture for their flat because that is not commercial use.

 

I think you'll find that your statement is the one that is 'totally wrong'...

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The Parking Adjudicator has examined loading with respect to parking enforcement in the decisions reported as Jane Packer Flowers and Others on 19/07/97.

It is quite clear from the decision in Jane Packer Flowers and Others that private cars are capable of loading for these purposes and that loading does not have to be of a commercial nature, and that loading includes the period away from the vehicle and that a period of several minutes is not unreasonable.

It is also clear for the Parking adjudicators decision in Douglas v Brent (PAS case No. 1960031276) that, since the driver had right to park for the purposes of loading, the burden of proof lies with Transport for London (substitute for your LA) to prove that the driver was not loading .

 

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks you guys for your help. Just to follow up, I have sent the following letter. I have been eMailed back, asking for a postal address to which they can respond. I will keep you posted, obviously:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

On 05/06/2006 I received a parking ticket whilst loading my car in the designated loading bay, West Avenue, Clacton on Sea.

I spoke to the traffic warden at the time, making it clear that I was loading my car with heavy weight lifting equipment that I had previously bought from the Argos store shortly before, and that I had moved my car into the loading bay simply just to collect it.

I was told by the traffic warden that I had the “wrong type” of vehicle to use a loading bay - I will point out that the taxation class of my vehicle is PLG, therefore I am entitled to carry Light Goods. Also, it has recently come to my attention that the Parking Adjudicator has examined loading with respect to parking enforcement in the decisions reported as Jane Packer Flowers and Others on 19/07/97.

It is quite clear from the decision in “Jane Packer Flowers and Others” that private cars are capable of loading for these purposes, and that loading does not have to be of a commercial nature, and that loading includes the period away from the vehicle and that a period of several minutes is not unreasonable. (Details of this case can be found here: http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/LOADADJ.pdf )

Also, I quote, “It is sometimes said (e.g. in the Parking Attendants Handbook) that shopping is not goods. This is an oversimplification. Certainly a person buying small items is not covered (Sprake - v - Tester ) …However, the fact that goods could be described as "shopping" does not prevent the exemption applying if the other criteria are met - for example, if the goods are heavy and bulky their actual transfer to a vehicle would be "loading" under the examples given in Sprake - v - tester. And if a motorist for example brings his car round to pick up the goods once a purchase has been made” as in this case “…that would also be a "collection" provided the goods warranted the use of a vehicle (Richards - v McKnight).”

Taking this information into account, I would like to bring to your attention that the ticket was issued unfairly and not warranted, and on this basis request a full refund. (Copy of digital Receipt below).

I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely

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Good letter - very concise and leaves little room for dispute :)

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Could someone in Wood Green Haringey London check what the signs are around the Shopping City area of Green Lanes. Because they do say something like, 'Heavy goods vehicle loading'. Thus Private cars would be the wrong sort. This assumes that such a sign has a legal status and isn't just made up by the council.

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Could someone in Wood Green Haringey London check what the signs are around the Shopping City area of Green Lanes. Because they do say something like, 'Heavy goods vehicle loading'. Thus Private cars would be the wrong sort. This assumes that such a sign has a legal status and isn't just made up by the council.

 

Your right a lot of loading bays will have a sign post along side stating "Loading/unloading by commercial vehicles only"

Being a lorry driver i see it all the time especially in towns where there is no enforcement. 99% of cars parked in loading bays are shoppers and not collect heavy things from argos. I have often double parked along side offending cars and they are always bloody shoppers - If people were not so lazy then there would never be an issue with loading bays.

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Hi,

 

I got hit by a ticket while parking in a loading bay on the main London Road at Thornton Heath Pond. The thing is as I parked I noticed to femail wardens right across the road. they saw me park. I waited to see if they would either move me on or shouyt at least to say that this was the wrong place to park. They walked on without so much as a wink. Anyway I walked into the local KFC to get lunch. every now and then I looked out to see if the wardens were there. I was in the KFC about three minutes, came out and saw them swiftly write up the ticket as I was getting into the car. They had obviuosly hid out of my line of sight to issue the ticket. B****es! However since looking at this thread I will check the status and wording of the ticket to see if I can also get this waived, or thrown out.

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  • 3 weeks later...

just as an aside, here in southport there was a bay with a sign that said"coaches only 15 minutes parking" .someone parked a private car there and received a ticket which he took all the way to to NPAS and they ruled in his favour because the council had ommited the full stop after "only", implying cars were not restricted!

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Just as an aside, here in Southport there was a bay with a sign that said "coaches only 15 minutes parking". Someone parked a private car there and received a ticket which he took all the way to to NPAS and they ruled in his favour because the council had omitted the full stop after "only", implying cars were not restricted!

 

Lovely.

 

Shows that being a stickler for correct punctuation does sometimes pay off.

 

Good spelling also helps - I took the liberty of correcting yours in the quote :)

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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I Received a response re:this thread:

 

"I am writing with regards to your recent correspondence received on 22/5/07, in relation to the above penalty charge notice.

 

This notice was paid and fully closed on 6/6/06, and is past the period of challenge. As such, I regret to inform you that we are unable to reconsider this matter.

 

Yours sincerely....."

 

...So not only does it seem that they took my money unfairly by issuing an invalid ticket and refusing to listen to my reasoning at the time - but are now saying that because it is paid you cant ask for it back! (Regardless of validity or not!).

 

What do you guys think...?

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