Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights

Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.

The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Gallen Novitiate

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    Default Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Few months back I was buying some weight lifting gear from Argos. There is a loading bay 50m away. I parked there and opened my boot ready, as it would have been impossible to carry the gear round town.

    I got to Argos and realised (as soon as I walked in) that I had left my wallet in the car. I went back to the car (less than 1 minute after parking) to find a traffic warden taking photos etc.

    I explained what I was doing, and that I was "loading" my car with heavy weight lifting equipment, and asked why I was getting a ticket?

    She told me I had the "wrong type of vehicle" and that if it was an estate car I would have probably been ok.

    I have since paid the ticket.

    I was annoyed that the warden was obviously hiding out somewhere, and the lack of discression that they were willing to use (It was clearly proveable that I was collecting heavy weight lifting equipment). My only alternative would have been to park on double yellows outside of Argos whilst I nipped in.

    Just to help get this off my chest, [edit]

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    The "wrong type of vehicle" quote is absolute crap.

    There is nothing whatsoever in parking legislation that restricts loading/unloading exemptions to any class of vehicle.

    There may be a natural presumption by TWs and PAs in favour of commercial vehicles, this is not backed up by law.


  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder gwc1000 Informative gwc1000 Informative gwc1000 Informative

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Many years ago the tax disc for all cars was issued as "Private". To avoid this sort of confusion almost all cars these days are taxed as "PLG" or Private/Light Goods. You are therefore taxed to carry Light Goods and are eligible to load your vehicle subject to normal loading restrictions.


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder amandafairman Novitiate

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    Exclamation Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Actually there is a difference in private and commercial vehicles, different rules apply when loading.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Quote Originally Posted by amandafairman View Post
    Actually there is a difference in private and commercial vehicles, different rules apply when loading.
    I got a ticket thrown out when I accidentally left wifes my blue disabled badge in car when loading car in a loading only area the warden booked me when I was loading a brand new electric wheelchair for my wife.

    Warden would not even discuss this was just arrogant.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Quote Originally Posted by amandafairman View Post
    Actually there is a difference in private and commercial vehicles, different rules apply when loading.
    Maybe in the approach of councils, but absolutely not in law.

    Legally, there is no difference between the two; councils just tend to be a little more lenient with obviously commercial vehicles


  7. #7
    tlusnoc
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Loading and unloading bays are intended for commercial vehicles only and not for shoppers. If everyone decided to park in these, then how are deliveries going to be made. And it is no good saying I will only be 5 minutes etc., for if a wagon turns up, where is the driver meant to park in the meantime?


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder Filthy Monkey Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Actually, they're intended for loading and unloading by any vehicle, commercial or otherwise. It is the activity being carried out that determines whether the vehicle may be parked there, not the type of vehicle.


  9. #9
    tlusnoc
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    Actually, they're intended for loading and unloading by any vehicle, commercial or otherwise. It is the activity being carried out that determines whether the vehicle may be parked there, not the type of vehicle.

    That is totally wrong, they are for the delivery and collection by commercial vehicles (that can include a car) and are not intended for shoppers.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    tlusnoc, please post the regulation that states that all loading bays are for commercial goods only. This may clarify your assertion. Until then, I'm afraid I have to go with patdavies in that private vehicles are classed as Private/Light Goods.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Quote Originally Posted by tlusnoc View Post
    Loading and unloading bays are intended for commercial vehicles only and not for shoppers. If everyone decided to park in these, then how are deliveries going to be made. And it is no good saying I will only be 5 minutes etc., for if a wagon turns up, where is the driver meant to park in the meantime?
    The same place that most of them park when another shop's wagon is there


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder Filthy Monkey Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Quote Originally Posted by tlusnoc View Post
    That is totally wrong, they are for the delivery and collection by commercial vehicles (that can include a car) and are not intended for shoppers.
    Eh, no, it's not totally wrong. In fact, it's perfectly correct. I did not say that a loading bay is intended for shoppers. I said that it is intended for loading / unloading. I think you'll find a clue in the name...

    There are a number of reasons why a loading bay would be used for non-commercial purposes. For example, your statement implies that somebody would not be allowed to turn up in a van and unload new furniture for their flat because that is not commercial use.

    I think you'll find that your statement is the one that is 'totally wrong'...


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder Notpayinapenny Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    The Parking Adjudicator has examined loading with respect to parking enforcement in the decisions reported as Jane Packer Flowers and Others on 19/07/97.
    It is quite clear from the decision in Jane Packer Flowers and Others that private cars are capable of loading for these purposes and that loading does not have to be of a commercial nature, and that loading includes the period away from the vehicle and that a period of several minutes is not unreasonable.
    It is also clear for the Parking adjudicators decision in Douglas v Brent (PAS case No. 1960031276) that, since the driver had right to park for the purposes of loading, the burden of proof lies with Transport for London (substitute for your LA) to prove that the driver was not loading .



  14. #14
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Thank you, NPAP

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  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder Notpayinapenny Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    No problem follow the link below for a bit of light reading

    http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals....ts/LOADADJ.pdf


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder myboyelvis Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    this is brilliant as i too was given a parking ticketicon whilst loading my car parked in a loading bay and was told that i had the wrong sort of vehicle. So i will certainly be writing to the council to reject my parking ticket.


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder Gallen Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Thanks you guys for your help. Just to follow up, I have sent the following letter. I have been eMailed back, asking for a postal address to which they can respond. I will keep you posted, obviously:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    On 05/06/2006 I received a parking ticketicon whilst loading my car in the designated loading bay, West Avenue, Clacton on Sea.

    I spoke to the traffic warden at the time, making it clear that I was loading my car with heavy weight lifting equipment that I had previously bought from the Argos store shortly before, and that I had moved my car into the loading bay simply just to collect it.

    I was told by the traffic warden that I had the “wrong type” of vehicle to use a loading bay - I will point out that the taxation class of my vehicle is PLG, therefore I am entitled to carry Light Goods. Also, it has recently come to my attention that the Parking Adjudicator has examined loading with respect to parking enforcement in the decisions reported as Jane Packer Flowers and Others on 19/07/97.

    It is quite clear from the decision in “Jane Packer Flowers and Others” that private cars are capable of loading for these purposes, and that loading does not have to be of a commercial nature, and that loading includes the period away from the vehicle and that a period of several minutes is not unreasonable. (Details of this case can be found here: http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals....ts/LOADADJ.pdf )

    Also, I quote, “It is sometimes said (e.g. in the Parking Attendants Handbook) that shopping is not goods. This is an oversimplification. Certainly a person buying small items is not covered (Sprake - v - Tester ) …However, the fact that goods could be described as "shopping" does not prevent the exemption applying if the other criteria are met - for example, if the goods are heavy and bulky their actual transfer to a vehicle would be "loading" under the examples given in Sprake - v - tester. And if a motorist for example brings his car round to pick up the goods once a purchase has been made” as in this case “…that would also be a "collection" provided the goods warranted the use of a vehicle (Richards - v McKnight).”

    Taking this information into account, I would like to bring to your attention that the ticket was issued unfairly and not warranted, and on this basis request a full refund. (Copy of digital Receipt below).

    I look forward to your response.

    Yours sincerely


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Good letter - very concise and leaves little room for dispute


  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder bribri Novitiate

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    Default Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Could someone in Wood Green Haringey London check what the signs are around the Shopping City area of Green Lanes. Because they do say something like, 'Heavy goods vehicle loading'. Thus Private cars would be the wrong sort. This assumes that such a sign has a legal status and isn't just made up by the council.


  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder Jesteruk Novitiate Jesteruk Novitiate

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    Smile Re: Parking ticket - Whilst loading in Loading bay

    Quote Originally Posted by bribri View Post
    Could someone in Wood Green Haringey London check what the signs are around the Shopping City area of Green Lanes. Because they do say something like, 'Heavy goods vehicle loading'. Thus Private cars would be the wrong sort. This assumes that such a sign has a legal status and isn't just made up by the council.
    Your right a lot of loading bays will have a sign post along side stating "Loading/unloading by commercial vehicles only"
    Being a lorry driver i see it all the time especially in towns where there is no enforcement. 99% of cars parked in loading bays are shoppers and not collect heavy things from argos. I have often double parked along side offending cars and they are always bloody shoppers - If people were not so lazy then there would never be an issue with loading bays.



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