Thread: Newbody Vs Abbey

Hi Newbody.

Yes you can split the claim into two. Claim the earlier period first. Don't file the second claim until the first is settled and paid, because if they are both seen in the courts at the same time they may well get linked together.
Beyond six years your run into the statue of limitations which is not so straight forwards. Some people are claiming this but it is by no means cut and dried at the moment.

Regards, Rooster.

Ok update time havent phoned Abbey or anything else yet recieved in the post this morning this

Abbey [J1]

Abbey PO Box 1109 Bradford BD1 5ZJ

If you have any questions

please call: 08457654321

fax: 01274368639

25 January 2007

Our ref: XXXXXXXXX/XXXX Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXX



Thank you for your letter dated 13 January 2007, which we received on 16 January 2007, requesting information on your bank account. I also acknowledge receipt of your £10 fee.

I confirm that arrangements have been made for the information you have requested to be sent to you. The transactional information remaining on our systems, normally covering the last fourteen months, will be sent out in the form of individual duplicate statements. You should receive these within five to seven working days of the date of this letter.

Any previous transactions have been archived onto microfiche and it is not possible to provide you with a computer print out of this information. However, we have made arrangements to send you a list of archived transactions between 2000 and 2005, under separate cover.

You have also asked for details of any 'manual interventions' that may have been made on your account and I am sorry that we are unable to help with this request.

I can explain that we consider 'manual intervention' to mean an action that is not automatic or computer-driven. Not all manual interventions are recorded, for example if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record is not always required. Similarly some interventions may relate to work carried out by a department rather than individuals where no central record of activity is kept because this is not the kind of information we need, or more importantly, that a customer would usually request.

Abbey National Credit and Payment Services Ltd is an Appointed Representative of Abbey National plc which is authorised by the Financial Services Authority.

Abbey National plc. Registered Office; Abbey National House, 2 Triton Square, Regent's Place, London NWI 3AN, United Kingdom. Registered Number 2294747. Registered in England. www,abbey,comTelephone087 0 607 6000:BT calls cost max Sp min 5.Sp per minute. Other companies and mobile costs may vary. Calls may be recorded or monitored. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. FSA registration number 106054. Abbey and the flame logo are registered trademarks.

Abbey National plc advises on Phoenix Life Assurance Limited's life assurance and pension products, advises on its own mortgage and collective investment scheme products, and acts as an insurance intermediary for general insurance. MISe 0337 JUL 06 F

XXXXXX

Now the way i read this is they are sending me all my account information for the last 6 years without arguing the microfiche Stance on it

My argument now would be that my account dates back to 1994 with Abbey so i want all the information to the account though at the minute i am only going to be claiming for the last 6 years in seperate cases as i believe the figures involved are going to be ridiculous even for this short period of time (what can i say i am a banks dream for charges i just can never budget for a month )

Once i have delt with the time frame where there appears to be least resistance i will then be intrested in being a guniea pig for a case over the 6 year period to see what happens subject to the origional cases bringing good results

But to do this i need to have the information for the account previous to 2000 which they are supplying me

so i have drafted the following letter

Thank you for your letter dated the 25th January 2007 stating that you have received my Subject access request stating that you will be forwarding me copies of all statements for the last 14 months and for the archives of your microfiche information from 2000 to 2005 to be forwarded to me as well shortly after

However my original request was for a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Which the time period you are sending only covers part of this as my account with yourself dates back even further. I would like for all information to which you have on me and this account
Sent to me A.S.A.P.
Failing this information being available to me the I would like to know when, where & how they where destroyed.

If you should make the additional information available to me and I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and any other fees I incur trying to get hold of this information

Also though I acknowledge your receipt of your letter dated 25th January 2007 may I remind you that there is only 24 days remaining for ALL the information in regards this account and myself to reach me or I will be forced to lodge a complaint of non-compliance with the Information Commissioner in regards this matter.

What are your thoughts on this and what happening so far

Newbody,
If a default is issued - they ought to inform you in writing "pay within 28 days or default will be issued etc.." type of thing.

It may be worthwhile getting your experian report from Credit Reference Agency costs 2 pounds it will show you what companies are writing about you etc..

Hi Newbody and Welcome!

Like you my claim exceeded £5k and I spent ages debating whether to go for the full amount Fast track or file 2 small claims. See my thread Getting my knickers in a twist about going to court! to read some of the discussions we had about it. In the end I opted for Fast track for the full amount but included the following with my allocation questionnaire:

D – Track
&
H – Other Information

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceeds their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

However, the continuing problem is (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers) that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.

Abbey agreed to this and the claim was moved to Small Claims "by mutual consent".

To an extent I regret moving to SCC as if I'd stayed with Fast Track I could have claimed expenses - also it's worth noting that none of the banks has actually gone to court yet.

If you look at Karnevils posts on my thread you'll see that she has loads of useful links in her signature.

I'm afraid I can't help you with info about defaults. I'd guess you would have to write to one of the credit ref agencies such as Experian and I believe it shouldn't cost more than £2. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will help you with that one.

Edit - Oops - Elizabeth posted while I was still typing!!

OK UPDATE

First 14months statements arrived this lunchtime all in seperate envelopes all packed with same leaflet garbage

have gone through the statements for the period

now i stopped using my account in May 06 as it had spiralled out of control (i get account in order they apply charges Surprise surprise not enough to cover DD etc and the cycle continues) and Abbey wernt prepared to help me get it under control by extending overdraft to cover their charges

so from dec-05 to the last charge hitting in may 06 which was for an incident in april of that year the charges are £1015 without any intrest

so now awaiting the microfiched copies to arrive

Question where due to charges it has put me outside my agreed overdraft as was the case from feb 06 until now they have added intrest while account overdrawn and have done this for a further 2 months after i ceased using this account (last default dd paid in may for action in april)amounting to £52.12 would i be entitled to add this to my claim as the account wasnt in use and the intrest was only accurred to the charges putting my account outside it's agreed limits
or would i be better ignore this sum in the final claim and just going for contractural intrest at what the rate would be at time in question with the option for judge to drop that to the 8% from sec69 if he feels that, that is more in keeping with the law

as they say still away to go yet but trying to keep on top of it all as i go

Will update some more when the microfiche documents arrive or the next corresponence is entered into with them

ok UPDATE microfiche information for last 6 years arrived today still missing first set of 6 years but that i will follow up later as they still have time to respond on that.

Now i am looking at caliming for compound contractural rate of interest so if i am correct i would add that to my prelim letter also i am looking at using their unauthorised intrest rate as well

so that said a copy of my prelim letter follows if someone in the know can check it out and make sure i havent made any mistakes it would be appreciated

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC
ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE
2 TRITON SQUARE
REGENT'S PLACE
LONDON
NW1 3AN

6th February 2007

Request for repayment of charges

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX Sort code: XX-XX-XX

My request
I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 6 years.
I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.
Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

Your responsibilities
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.
I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.
Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

What I require
I calculate that you have taken £4454.00 plus interest on this amount at your current unauthorised overdraft rate of 28.7% equalling £6726.35 which you would have charged me in interest for the sum which you have taken. Making a total outstanding of £ 11180.35.

I believe I am entitled to this interest rate due to the implied term in the bank contract based on the principle of "mutuality" or "reciprocity"

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.


My targets to resolve this matter
I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.


Yours faithfully,


X XXXXXX

for my summary of schedule of charges i have used Vampiress's compounded contractural interest (simple) spreadsheet and changed the 8% to abbey's current unauthorised rate of 28.7%

Thank you in advance for any help on this

link for Abbey intrest rates

Abbey - Abbey current account - Rates

Shameless bump

Newbody,

for my summary of schedule of charges i have used Vampiress's compounded contractural interest (simple) spreadsheet and changed the 8% to Abbey's current unauthorised rate of 28.7%

Sorry to say but that's not right. 8% is "simple" interest and 28.7% is "compound" - the formulae are completely different. I think you need the "complex" spreadsheet. regards, Mad Nick

Sorry think i miss quoted it above
Throughout claim with compounded contractual interest is what the sheet was headed

copy of the page from top i used template 2

ENGLAND AND WALES
SIMPLE VERSION - choose to claim all or no bank interest
1 Throughout claim with contractual interest HERE
OR
2 Throughout claim with compounded contractual interest HERE (Vamp's recommended if you've no balance detail)
OR

newbody, yeah, I read it that you'd just replaced the figure. Sounds like you did it right. Regard Mad Nick.

ok update just recieved standard letter from Abbey in response to prelim letter

Abbey
Banking Specialist Team
PO Box 5885
Milton Keynes
MK101FA
Tel: 0845 600 6014
Fax: 0845 600 1378
Typetalk: 18001 08456006014

09 February 2007

Our Ref: xxxxxxxxx

Dear XXXXXXXXX
Account No XXXXXXXX
Thank you for contacting us and I am sorry that you have been so unhappy that you
have felt you must complain.
One of my team will be responsible for investigating your complaint and I have
enclosed our Complaints leaflet, which explains our procedure for doing this. High
quality customer service is of great importance to us at Abbey and we will do
everything we can to resolve your complaint in a timely and satisfactory manner.
I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly, but we want to
complete a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. If we have not
contacted you before then, we will write to you in four weeks to let you know what is
happening.
If you have employed someone to handle your complaint on your behalf, please note:
employing a third party complaint-handling firm, or a solicitor, or financial adviser
does not affect how we review your complaint. Please be aware that:
• Abbey does not charge you to investigate your complaint
• Abbey will not be liable for any costs incurred if you do decide to employ a
third party to handle your complaint during this review
• Abbey, in general, will only make payment directly to the account holder(s) if
your complaint is upheld and redress is due
Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to
find a solution that you are happy with.
Yours sincerely


Andrew Nanson
Business Manager
Ene. Complaints Leaflet

they still have 7 days under prelim letter so 7 days till i fiile the lba

Ok update time heard nothing more scince the above standard letter from Abbey so now to send them the standard letter beforee action from here then await the next 14 days

letter before action

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXX Sort code: XXXXX


I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond satisfactorily to my letter of the 6th February 2007.
I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations thus meaning you have being doing me wrong by these acts. If such is not the case then a breakdown of what your costs in administering these charges to my account would be appreciated stating that they are inline with other finasncial institutions does not represent them being a true cost as from recent media events other financial establishments are also being bought to task over their current charging regime

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I calculate that you have taken £xxxx.00 from my account so what I require to resolve this matter is the £xxxx.00 plus interest on this amount at your current unauthorised overdraft rate of 28.7% equalling £xxxx.06 (which you would have charged me in interest for the sum which you have taken had I taken it under the same circumstances). Making a total outstanding of £xxxxx.06 as of today’s date increasing daily due to the interest until this matter is resolved.
I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 6th February 2007.
Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.
In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

Yours faithfully,


Newbody

Goodluck newbody - won't be too long now just stick to your timetable and file your claim when it's the right time and you'll be far off then!!!

Yeap it my worst bit sitting waiting time table lba was done just after prelim ready for today
will start in next couple days on n1 ready to file in 14 days and continue to sit on here reading the different arguments/thoughts on ways to go for Claim + contractural/compound

Newbody, if the letter's not already gone, suggest ask again that they disclose their actual costs associated with your breaches. They won't, but the more times they ignore you the better your Court bundle will look if it ever gets into Court. Regards, Mad Nick