site admin sorry about the mess

cannot get use to 2007 yet

thanks for that, so I can just go ahead and fill this out, and send it to Nasty West (as I have seen them referrred to on this site!)

Do I also need to submit a defence - as they did to me? And do I still need to respond to their CPR18?

Your wish is my command here is your defence well a draft for you.

Q1.1 In relation to each charge please identify:

A1.1: The information within this direction was supplied within document pack supplied to the Court. However since this has been directed the response to the requested CPR18 can be found below and within the attached spreadsheet.

(a) The dates when the charge was charged

A1.1 Date if each occasion when a penalty was charged to the account. It is noted that since the original list was compiled the defendant has seen fit to supply the missing information as requested within the original Data Information Request submitted in December 2006 and re-submitted in February 2007. The information has been gathered from This therefore has necessitated an amend. This amendment has been highlighted within the spreadsheet.

(b) The amount of the same

A1.2. The amount of the same, penalty charged to the account, is given within the attached spreadsheet, it is noted that this information has been gathered via information supplied by the defendant (Bank Statements) and readily available to the defendant without this request. It is noted that sine the original submission Claim was submitted the Defendant has seen fit to supply missing information. This information has resulted in an increase of the Claimed to £6,094.86 and interest of £1,793.14 totalling sum £7,888.00.

I would therefore request that the court now accepts that the above be the amount to be repaid by the defendant.

© the reason(s) given for the charging of the same

The reason(s) for the charges of the same are included individually within the attached spreadsheet. This information was made available to the defendant prior to the Hearing. It is noted that this information has been available to the defendants through their own supplied information (Bank Statements).

1.2 In respect of each charge, please clarify the following:

(a) is it the case of the claimant the same should not have been charged.

The Claimant is aware that each charge has been debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s account pursuant to the terms and conditions when the account was opened. However, please see my replies below.

(b) if yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged:

The Claimant does not contend that the same should not have been charged; merely that the charge made should have represented the Defendant’s liquidated losses and not the fixed charges applied by the Defendant according to the terms and conditions in force at the time the charge was made.

© if no; is tit the case of the claimant that the same should not have been charged in this amount

This is exactly the Claimant’s case. Each charge debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s bank account should not have been charged in the amount that was charged. It is the Claimant’s case that each charge is a disproportionate penalty in that each charge does not truly represent the actual cost to the Defendant. The Claimant reminds the Defendant that it has been put to strict proof in previous correspondence and/or the Particulars of Claim that the amount charged for each charge debited does truly reflect the Defendant’s costs and that they are not making a profit from such charges – in the absence of any documentation to support the Defendant’s contention that each charge debited represents the Defendant’s liquidated losses, the Claimant contends that the Defendant has no defence to the claim that each charge is disproportionate and therefore unenforceable in common law, or by the previously claimed Acts, Statutes and Regulations pleaded.

(d) if yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged in this amount and identify the sum the claimants contends should have been charged

The Claimant cannot specifically reply to this request in that the amount that should have been charged cannot be specified because the Defendant has failed to reply to the Claimant’s request for a breakdown of costs incurred by the Defendant in applying charges to the Claimant’s account. The Defendant’s contentions that the charges are fair, reasonable and transparent are denied because of this material failure to disclose this information. Had the Claimant been made aware of the breakdown of each and every charge debited, the Claimant would have been able to reply to this particular request.

(e) if no please state the claimants case

2 In your claim you state "the charges are an unlawful extravagant penalty".

2.1 Please specify whether these charges applied were due to a breach of contract by the claimant

2.2 Please identify in each case the particular breach of contract (by reference to appropriate terms of the contract and the charge relates to

3. In your claim you state that the charges" applied constitutes an unfair penalty under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999"

3.1 Please supply all of the facts relied on by the claimant in support of the contentions in Paragraph 2 above and in particular please identify the contractual provisions that the claimant alleges are invalid by reference to the Regulations.

wow, you've really come up trumps! I'm just unsure about once sentence:

"It is noted that sine the original submission Claim was submitted the Defendant has seen fit to supply missing information. This information has resulted in an increase of the Claimed to £6,094.86 and interest of £1,793.14 totalling sum £7,888.00.

what missing information is meant?"

Is this something that I am supposed to substitute with my own particulars?

Do I need to send the list of charges again?

Do I send this defence along with the CPR18 (and list of charges?) that I am submitting?

sorry for all the questions but I am feeling quite out of my depth here

The bank's scare tactics are achieving the desired effect - I'm panicking! There's just so much legalese to wade through and they want a response by 10 July to their CPR18

Sorry should have taken that section out that was in my case only since they forgot or just did not send some of the statement. You should remove that section.

StevePM

ok, that's a relief! I have been posting in the first person, but actually I am trying to reclaim for my dad. Unfortunately he has calculated in interest charges that can't be reclaimed. Neither did he send a full list of charges, just the total, plus interest calculated on this total. I realise that this could mean quite a difference in amount claimed and real amount charged. Would amending the claim amount at this late stage adversely affect the claim? I feel bad monopolising your time like this, I am just finding it difficult to come in and have to sort through all of this (and we're talking 6 years worth of statements for two accounts!) when I wasn't there in the beginning stages........

ok, that's a relief! I have been posting in the first person, but actually I am trying to reclaim for my dad. Unfortunately he has calculated in interest charges that can't be reclaimed. Neither did he send a full list of charges, just the total, plus interest calculated on this total. I realise that this could mean quite a difference in amount claimed and real amount charged. Would amending the claim amount at this late stage adversely affect the claim? I feel bad monopolising your time like this, I am just finding it difficult to come in and have to sort through all of this (and we're talking 6 years worth of statements for two accounts!) when I wasn't there in the beginning stages........

Hi Thm

Just a word of encouragement - I was at similar stage to you a few weeks ago - Steve PM very helpful - knows his stuff!!

My hearing was this morning - Cobbetts/NastyWest. I was so nervous but lo and behold I received half a dozen telephone calls from Cobbetts yesterday trying to settle. At first, offered £300 less. I was very brave and said no (after consulting this site and getting an answer back pronto!). I stuck it out and after five more calls - where they still used scare tactics talking about their barrister being on call to attend the hearing - they finally coughed up with full amount about 3pm yesterday. Attended court today anyway to inform the judge and he "adjourned" the hearing for 28 days to ensure money received. I actually arrived home from the court to find a cheque delivered for £2,600. So be brave, dont let the banks/Cobbetts bully you and you will get there in the end!! jhamb

thanks for the encouragement! Still not sure if amending the original claim amount will affect the case - know where I can find out?

jhamb

thanks for the compliment but it just that the banks cannot do what they like to ordinary people. Watch this space my boys and wife are next

Stevepm

jhamb

thanks for the compliment but it just that the banks cannot do what they like to ordinary people. Watch this space my boys and wife are next

 

Stevepm

Hear Hear! Fired up ready to start my new claim against NatWest for further charges incurred. Also my daughter's boyfriend has just confirmed he has about £300 worth of charges on account with Nationwide - Iv told him to get them back pronto!! As a matter of interest, did you apply for wasted costs? If so, how did you get on?

thm

you can amend you amount right up till you sit in front of the JUdge and even then you can ask the judge for an amendment. Provided that you have good reason you can amend it.

I do not want to prior but what reason do you need ot change the amount

Stevepm

I am helping my dad to claim back his charges but have gotten invloved at a late stage. He had already (incorrectly)calculated the total sum and (misguidedly) included a few interest charges that you can't claim back. I am now going through everything again and amending it

thanks for the help!

Hi All please can somebody help.. I like many others received a defence from cobbettson the 29th June but in it they have set out the usual defence asking for more information... but only gave me until 5th July to respon. Due to postal strike i only received court transfer of proceedings today which also said .........................

It is ordered that :-

1. The filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the district judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise. **

Note: Any party affected by this order may under rule 3.3(5) apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed. Such party must apply under rule 23.3within 14 days of service of this order.

** Please note that an allocation fee may be pa\yable in this instance. Please contact the court of transfer for details.

Can anybody help please should I respond to cobblers or not any help appreciated

Hi, I have finally managed to cobble together a response to the CPR18 issued to me by cobbetts, I am posting it here for some advice or for some of you more experienced posters to give the once over:

IN THE LEICESTER COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO. XXXXXXX

BETWEEN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Claimant

-and- NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC

Defendant

RESPONSE TO REQUEST FOR FUTHER INFORMATION AND CLARIFICATION

NOTE- IMPORTANT

This response is served pursuit to CPR 18

The Response

1. In response to Para 2.1 and 2.2 (a)(b); of defendants request please find herewith (attached Schedule one) a break down of the charges applied to the claimants account this includes the claimants account number sort code and the dates of the charges were applied, the reason and the interest accrued on each charge.

2. In response to Para 2.2; of the defendants request, the claimant has already explained why the charges should not have been applied but for the avoidance of doubt the claimant alleges that the charges are Penalty charges and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79, along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses.

3. In response to Para 2.3(a) Yes, the claimant should not have been charged an amount above the true administrative cost incurred by the respondents,

In response to Para 2.3(b) the claimant should not have been charged for reasons outlined in Para 2.

In response to Para 2.3 ©The claimant argues that each charge debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s bank account should not have been charged in the amount that was charged. It is the Claimant’s case that each charge is a disproportionate penalty in that each charge does not truly represent the actual cost to the Defendant.

4. In response to Para 2.3(d) The Defendants have asked what the claimant should have been charged, to answer this the claimant will need a break down of the administrative cost incurred by the defendant in applying the said charges. Had the Claimant been made aware of the breakdown of each and every charge debited, the Claimant would have been able to reply to this particular request.

If the defendant requires any further information, the claimant will be happy to provide this once the discloser of documents/information has been dealt with by the court.

Sincerely,

I have also sent a letter to both the courts and cobbetts detailing my revision of the claim amount with a copy of the schedule of charges (as advised by the court over the phone). and a nudge letter to cobbetts asking them to settle out of court for the full amount and save us all time and money.

Q1) Is this CPR18 response accurate/sufficient?

Q2) Do I still need to send a draft order (even though I've been told that an AQ will be dispensed with unless the DJ orders otherwise)?

Thanks for all the help I've had so far, just need to tie it all together now to make sense of everything and get this dreaded mess over with.

any help out there? I have to post this response first thing monday or I will miss the deadline!!!!

thm, have a look at the CPR 18 response in this link here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/67743-natwest-final-stage-i-2.html#post583665

As you haven't done so yet, I strongly advise you to start your own thread in the main Nat West forum. This way, people can support you with your claim and give you the most appropriate advice in the future.

Hi all, Some advice on next move. Today recieved a letter from Plymouth County Court advising us that the case against NatWest Bank had been Stayed until the result of the test cases is known. We have the option to appeal the stay.

Comments Please

robbyS :?

Hi robby, welcome on board.

Unfortunately, many courts are staying cases at the moment - but you can attempt to have it set aside (there are links on how to do this on my signature).

You may find it useful to start a new thread in the Nat West forum - robby vs Natwest.

Best of luck