Sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on 18 December - they have until 28th January to respond. Intend to reclaim charges on Burton Store Card.

"Once more into the breach dear friends ..."

Prompt reposnse - GE Money sent a copy of all statements and a letter confirming 'no manual interventions' which arrived this morning.

Sending an Initial Request tomorrow for repayment of £372 charges plus interest at 29.9% APR giving a total of £912.05.

Just to get things right - the interest brings it to £540.05 - letter corrected before it was sent

Recieved a reply offering to repay £336 in charges as a good will gesture. Refusal to pay any interest though. We propse sending the following letter - any comments?

"Dear GE Money

Thank you for your letter of 12 January. I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account and interest on those charges totalling £540.05 (£372.00 charges plus £168.05 interest up until the account was paid up on 10 June 2005).

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

It is my considered view that GE Money, as a multinational corporation of very high standing and repute in the business world, with the benefits of accounting expertise, in-house lawyers and/or access to top legal experts, owes a duty of care to its customers, in relation to ensuring that it is trading lawfully; and has therefore always had the resources to know that its charges were and are unreasonable, punitive in nature and therefore unlawful at Common Law. If you maintain that your charges are reasonable then it is up to you to demonstrate this by providing information on your actual costs associated with my late payments, etc.

If you do not, I must assume that the level of the charges are unrelated to your costs and act accordingly.

I aver that I mistook the charges to be lawful when I paid them, because prior to becoming aware of the OFT’s report last year I had trusted GE Money to operate lawfully. The fact that these charges are in your standard terms and conditions does not make them lawful. Rather, I believe your terms and conditions are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

On the matter of interest I would make the following point: I do not expect to borrow money free of charge but fully expect to pay interest. However, the interest I have claimed back was not levied on money I had borrowed from GE Money but on money unlawfully transferred from my account in charges. Therefore my claim stands.

I will give you a further 7 days to reflect on this matter after which I will send you a Letter Before Action which will give you 14 days to respond. After that I will proceed to make a claim through the Small Claims Court without any further communication.

I trust this clarifies my position.

Yours Sincerely

Steven4065

Have sent subject access request today to GE Money ( 4 store cards!) Will keep you posted....

All the best bailey54. GE Money seem to respond fairly quickly. Keep us posted.

I have recently sent a SAR to GE Money for burtons, to the following address:

GE Money

PO Box 700

Leeds

LS99 2BD

Is this the same address, that you received your quick response from?

Good Luck with your claims.

x

Recieved a reply offering to repay £336 in charges as a good will gesture. Refusal to pay any interest though. We propse sending the following letter - any comments?

 

"Dear GE Money

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of 12 January. I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account and interest on those charges totalling £540.05 (£372.00 charges plus £168.05 interest up until the account was paid up on 10 June 2005).

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

It is my considered view that GE Money, as a multinational corporation of very high standing and repute in the business world, with the benefits of accounting expertise, in-house lawyers and/or access to top legal experts, owes a duty of care to its customers, in relation to ensuring that it is trading lawfully; and has therefore always had the resources to know that its charges were and are unreasonable, punitive in nature and therefore unlawful at Common Law. If you maintain that your charges are reasonable then it is up to you to demonstrate this by providing information on your actual costs associated with my late payments, etc.

 

If you do not, I must assume that the level of the charges are unrelated to your costs and act accordingly.

 

I aver that I mistook the charges to be lawful when I paid them, because prior to becoming aware of the OFT’s report last year I had trusted GE Money to operate lawfully. The fact that these charges are in your standard terms and conditions does not make them lawful. Rather, I believe your terms and conditions are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

 

 

On the matter of interest I would make the following point: I do not expect to borrow money free of charge but fully expect to pay interest. However, the interest I have claimed back was not levied on money I had borrowed from GE Money but on money unlawfully transferred from my account in charges. Therefore my claim stands.

 

I will give you a further 7 days to reflect on this matter after which I will send you a Letter Before Action which will give you 14 days to respond. After that I will proceed to make a claim through the Small Claims Court without any further communication.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

Steven4065

sounds good- keep us all posted

QueenG, Yes that's the address we used.

Quick update - received cheque for £336 today for charges. Keeping on to get interest as well

Hi Steven,

Im about to make my claim with GE Money for a few accounts and just wondered if you are claimaing compounded contractual interest?

Thanks

Hi redsonja

Yes we are claiming compound contractual interest at 29.9%. Needless to say, GE Money say they are not going to pay it. We'll see about that!

As noted above they have already sent a cheque for the charges (minus a couple of estimated ones because they couldn't find some statements - seems to be a common problem, looking at other threads relating to GE Money). In our reply, we accepted this as a partial settlement but said:

"On the matter of interest I would make the following point: I do not expect to borrow money free of charge but fully expect to pay interest. However, the interest I have claimed back was not levied on money I had borrowed from GE Money but on money unlawfully transferred from my account in charges. Therefore my claim stands"

Thanks for the quick response. I shall use 29.9% too.

Good paragraph to put in. I shall make sure I make a comment like that.

It appears that most people now offer the full charges but wont offer the interest with it. I have had full charges offer from Morgan Stanley but they wont pay the interest. I have told them I will still pursue for the interest too.

I shall watch your thread with interest (excuse the pun ;-) )

Does idiocy know no bounds?

Today we received a statement of account from Burtons:

Balance brought forward 0.00

Customer cheque refund 336.00

Decrease Balance adjustment 336.00CR

Minimum payment 0.00

And then

Viking Collection Services Ltd have been instructed to collect this debt

Duh!

Another letter from GE Money offering to pay the £36 estimated charges as well as the £336 they have already paid but reiterating the fact that 'no interest will be removed'.

Soooo, LBA at the end of the week when SoSteve4064 gets back.

Cheque for £36 received today, LBA going on Monday.

Hve today received statements and letter from GE, letter states they have problems with their statement retrieval system and list 10 statements that are missing. Any thoughts on this? How do I estimate any charges there may be on the missing ones?

Hi Bailey,

Are there consecutive statements missing or have you got the ones either side of the missing ones?

If you have, then by checking the closing and opening balances of the 2 you have either side and minusing the interest, it should work out roughly whether you had any charges. Thats what I did with my partners had he had a few missing but luckily I was able to work it out.

We only had one missing and two either side had the same charges so we just assumed that the missing one had the same charges on it.

From other threads it seems that GE Money do have a problem.

Got a "get lost" letter from GE money this morning. So it's on to court - got the N1 from the local county court this morning. Our situation is slightly odd in that GE Money have already paid back the charges, but are refusing to pay back the interest on those charges. I have modified the 'standard' Particulars of Claim to fit. Does the assembled intellect, experience and general wisdom of the site have any comment? Here they are:

Brief particulars of claim:

Repayment of interest on amounts charged by the defendant to the claimant for purported breaches of a contract to supply credit services in contravention of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

The Claimant claims:

a) the return of the interest of £168.05 charged on amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £372.00

b) Court costs

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges from 10 June 2005 to 02 February of £22.55 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.022%.

Full particulars:

IN THE TOYTOWN COUNTY COURT

BETWEEN

SoS4064 CLAIMANT

And

GE Capital Bank Limited, trading as GE Money DEFENDANT

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

1. The Claimant had an account number xxxxxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 31st May 2002.

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim but it should be noted that the charges have been repaid to the Claimant by the Defendant.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and

iii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

5. To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of credit services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the interest of £168.05 (one hundred and sixty-eight Pounds Sterling and five pence) debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of charges in the sum of £372 (threee hundred and seventy-two Pounds Sterling) detailed in the attached Schedule.;

b) Court costs;

c) administrative costs and other costs incurred in the course of researching and preparing the claim;

d) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

Just a couple of notes in clarification on the above post:

1. The account was openend in May/June 2002 (I'll fill in the exact date before sending in the form)

2. On 10 June 2005 we paid off the ballance of the account (the amount was almost exactly what we claimed in charges and interest - at 29.9%)

3. So, we are claiming a fixed sum of charges plus the total interest charged at 29.9% as of 10 June 2005.

4. In the court claim I am adding 8% to that 10 June balance up until today and then up to judgement.

Hi, Steven

Let's have a look at this, then.

Got a "get lost" letter from GE money this morning. So it's on to court - got the N1 from the local county court this morning. Our situation is slightly odd in that GE Money have already paid back the charges, but are refusing to pay back the interest on those charges. I have modified the 'standard' Particulars of Claim to fit. Does the assembled intellect, experience and general wisdom of the site have any comment? Here they are:

 

Brief particulars of claim:

 

Repayment of interest on amounts charged by the defendant and debited to an account with the claimant for purported breaches of a contract to supply credit services. The claimant avers that these charges and the interest thereon were levied against him in contravention of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

The Claimant claims:

a) the return of the interest of £168.05 charged on amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £372.00

b) Court costs

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges from 10 June 2005 to 02 February of £22.55 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.022%.

 

 

Full particulars:

 

IN THE TOYTOWN COUNTY COURT

 

BETWEEN

 

SoS4064 CLAIMANT

 

And

 

GE Capital Bank Limited, trading as GE Money DEFENDANT

 

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant had an account number xxxxxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 31st May 2002.

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim DELETE from here. but it should be noted that the charges have been repaid to the Claimant by the Defendant. TO HERE

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account were punitive in nature; were not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and

iii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

5. To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of credit services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. The defendant had, in addition, levied interest on these charges at the rate of XX.XX%.

 

7. The defendant has repaid the charges themselves to the Claimant but has retained the interest it levied thereon.

 

8. The Claimant avers that, by this action, the Defendant has sought to enrich itself by the consequences of unlawful action, specifically, unlawful penalty charges as detailed above and applied in terrorem.

9. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the interest of £168.05 (one hundred and sixty-eight Pounds Sterling and five pence) debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of interest on charges detailed in the attached schedule, in the sum of £372 (threee hundred and seventy-two Pounds Sterling);

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) administrative costs and other costs incurred in the course of researching and preparing the claim; Can't do this - small claims procedure doesn't allow costs other than court costs. Delete and renumber.

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

I think the amendments detailed above help to focus in on the interest and may make a case that's hard to answer. There are some other points made in another thread that I was looking at last night - can't remember which one, but I think it was either GaryH or Glen who made them. Check their posts.

Hope that helps.

best wishes

Westy

Thanks Westy, that's really helpful. I got myself a bit confused trying to focus on the interest - your changes have sorted that.

Claim going in tomorrow.

The LBA gave GE Money until 12th February to respond before we submitted a claim in the County Court. However, they replies to the LBA immediately telling us to get lost.

Should we wait until 12th February before taking the claim to court or should we just go ahead now as GE Money have made themselves clear?