Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Angry Late Payment Of Wages

    Not sure if I am posting in the right place, but anyway..........
    My husband always used to be paid on the last working day of the month but a number of years ago they changed the pay date to the 1st. Usually when the 1st fall on the weekend they are paid in on the friday before but they have now decided that when this happens they will now pay the wages on the 2nd - so Decembers wages won't be paid until 2 January. Does anyone know what you can do about this, hubby has obviously put it in writing that he is not happy but what more can be done?

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  2. #2
    LJL LJL is offline
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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    Hi Doo,

    I am by no means an expert on this, however I did used to be an employer...

    First point of call would be to see whether your husband has a contract and whether it states how and when he will be paid, if not a contract, maybe the origanal offer letter of employment.

    As far as I am aware - any alterations in the contract must be consulted on first and signed off by both parties - but as I said - I am no expert!

    Good luck


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    Hi Doo

    Sorry to hear about your husband's problems he's having with his employer.

    The vital document(s) here are your husband's Contract of Employment and/or the letter offering him the job initially. If either state the actual 'pay day' (e.g. 'the last working day of the month') and he has not been notified in writing and agreed to the change, then I would suggest the changes to 'pay day' are possibly a breach of contract by the employer.

    Naturally, as with most things, there are some exceptions. Employment contracts can be lawfully changed where:

    (a) the parties involved agree to the changes
    (b) where the terms are changed as a result of collective bargaining
    (c) where the contract itself allows for a change
    (d) if developments through 'custom and practice' are made over time

    Is your husband a member of a union? If so then they should be fighting to have the change rescinded. If not, then his ultimate recourse is to a Tribunal. However, in most cases before taking on a case, a tribunal will want to be satisfied that the company's internal grievanceicon procedure has been exhausted without a satisfactory resolution.

    Jimbo 44 - always happy to help, but always willing to learn from being corrected too!!! Whilst any advice given may be based upon personal experience, please always be sure you seek guidance from a professional in the particular field.

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  4. #4
    doo doo is offline
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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    It states on employment contract your salary per annum is xxxxx and will be paid monthly in arrears. xxxxx operates wages on a PAYE system, and all wages matters will correspond within their jurisdiction (copies available) my husband has been told that they do not have to tell him when the wages are going to be paid in and there is no actual date on contract. People have complained due to direct debits etc going out on 1st but they have been told to alter them, a note for change of pay date this month was put on desk giving people 11 days notice. So to reiterate Decembers money will not be received until 2 January.


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    I do think it is unusual an employer having to fall in line with employee demands on when they'd like paid! Direct Debits are not the responsibility for the employer, if the payment date changes for whatever reason, then it is up to the employee to manage their affairs, and if they've set up a pile of DDM's, then there's no reason why these cannot be modified to fit in with the new dates. Otherwise its like the tail wagging the dog.


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    But I would've thought that the employer would have to give a good bit of notice, plus as far as I was aware any changes to a contract have to be agreed by both parties. It's like a company you're in a contract with changing the T&Cs you agreed to and expecting you to abide by the new instead of the old. Eleven days is not a lot of notice around December time. PAYE refers to tax - I don't think they cover things like when you get paid! Do you have a copy of the contract to hand, doo?

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    doo doo is offline
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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    Yes I have the contract - at the moment my hubby hasn't signed it as he is not happy about the wage dates, this happened about four years ago also, they used to pay money in on the last working day of the month, then changed it without telling anyone and my mortgageicon didn't go out, consequently I was a month behind as although the payment went out on the 1st it was the next month if you see what I mean.

    He has put his grievanceicon in writing as this first happened in September 2006 without notification, checked our bank account and money wasn't there. There answer was "wages will be paid monthly in arrears" It is not specified on which date this will be paid should the 1st of the month fall at the weekend. As the 1st fell on a Sunday in September, the nearest working day was Monday 2nd October, I apologise if this caused you any inconvenience. In the future all wages payment where the 1st falls on a weekend, will be paid on the first available working day after the 1st, which is the most common practice".

    Hubby is deciding what to do but I honestly don't think anything can be done, I expect when the 1st and 2nd fall on a weekend he won't get paid till the 3rd, its a joke, just hope a new job comes up in the new year. Any help appreciated.


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    i worked at a firm at M/cr airporticon like this (we were weekly) somtimes wages went in bank on friday/the following monday,tues, even once a wensday.(though friday was payday, sometimes it was cash,
    but worse of all we got cheques 1 monday (5 days clearance)
    well we striked (unofficial) "only greivance we could do" as new labour laws it take 100 years to be able to strike officially ,
    but the owners contract with the Airport was for 24/7 emergency building cover (just the hour we was on strike) was enough for his contract to be threatened (we always were paid on friday noon after that) .
    Though i did leave 2 months after that (cowboy Co).


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    If the 1st of the month is Good Friday, then he won't get paid till Tuesday 5th.

    However, it looks to me as if that would be within the terms of the contract; the contract says "in arrears", so I don't see how the employee can insist on being paid before the 1st of the following month (that is, I don;t see how he can insist on being paid *before* 1st April for wok done in March.)

    It is a pain though, because in practice you are out of pocket by the amount of a month's mortgageicon payments.

    Tim


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    I see what you mean but it does say monthly in arrears surely paying you into the next month is more than a month in arrears, if you see what I mean, my hubby has worked for them for years and has probably taken only 1 day off sickicon, is never late etc, and always takes his annual leave to suit the business,has helped them build their business up by his reputation - you would think they would be keen to treat their employee better than that. There doesn't seem to be much he can do about it by the looks of things except look for employment elsewhere, which is he doing anyway.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    I don't think there is any legislation written in for payment dates as such; most of it covers witholding pay and what people are entitled to. However, you say that your husband is paid in arrears as opposed to in advance so if the pay date on the 1st was an arrears payment, then paying a day early means that it wasn't exactly one month in arrears (i.e. 29 or 30 days). By pushing the date back by a day or two, they are within their rights because it is either 31 or 32 days in arrears - if you see what I mean.

    There isn't a clause in the contract with regards to the pay day - most of them do. In fact, my employment contract states I will be paid on the 25th of each month in arrears - so therefore, to deviate from this would mean they would breach their contract and I could sue them for damages, as it would cause further complications (i would imagine) - but this is only because the term is expressed within the contract, whereas your husband's contract only states he will be paid monthly in arrears.

    However, aside from causing some minor inconveniences, direct debits should always be paid out on the following working day if the due date hits a public holidayicon or weekend - not before; this is a term within the direct debiticon guarantee, so DDicon wise you should be ok.

    Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    BUMP
    any more input appreciated, demon-slash where are you?


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder Oscarrr Novitiate

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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    Hi people 1st post but an important one for me anyways..
    My employer states that we are paid every 4 weeks yet this does not happen & he blsames this on the BAC method.
    Today when I asked him where my wages where his reply was "the money has left my account so its down to the banks to sort it out".
    I am now being charged by the bank for not having enough funds to cover standing orders & again he says that it isnt his fault & will not be held liable for them,is this legal..Thanks in advance


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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    Might be better to start a fresh thread, but here are some observations.

    I think you are being fed a line - bank transfers now happen on the same day, only if you have an unusual account (or there is an elongated transfer path - say to a Building Society account, will this push it past two days. As for his claim that he's not responsible for delays - he is. Dear me yes.

    YOu can call his bluff and say you cannot take the delays, so you'll take your wages in cash to save the banks makings fools of you (!). If he makes excuses, I think you know the reason, whether you rock the boat further is for you to decide.

    I worked for a firm happily for three years and out the blue one month, the wages were late by a week, the same the following month, again it was 'BACS Software' issues. They were put into administration the following month. Basically, I was lied to.

    If they told me there was a cash flow problem, I would have been warned and could have hedged my bets - they didn't and I couldn't.

    Your contract of Employment will stipulate your terms of payment - so make sure you know what they are. By telling him you've closed your bank account because you are so unhappy at their service and the delays, you now but HIM on the spot, requesting cash (or a cheque) on the due date,


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    If your employment contract you will be paid on the "X" day of every month, or "every 4 weeks" or any other term, it is implied that your bank account will be furnished with your wages on that day - the employer is responsible to ensure that the money is transferred in time for that date.

    Similarly to credit card payments - they say the payment is due by "x" day, but adivse you to make sure you leave a few days before hand for clearance or delays.

    If your wages are not in your account, then your employer is in breach of contract, therefore if you incur any charges or penalties then these can be reclaimed - this hinges on the delay being due to your company paying the wages in - the retribution is the responsibility of whoever's action caused the delay.

    Regardless of whether your account operates within the Faster Payment Scheme, the date is the same and BACS payments have not changed - they are still made at the same time due to not all bank accounts accepting faster payments. I have two current accounts - one sends and accepts faster payments (which are normally instant or very very soon) and the other takes 3 days to pay in and out from (regardless from where). But business or contractual payments are not particularly affected in this way, as large BACS runs will still be processed against the old BACs rules.

    Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only
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  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder Oscarrr Novitiate

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    Default Re: Late Payment Of Wages

    Thanks for the prompt replies people,I live in Scotland & I will definitely be rocking the boat 1st thing tomorrow.many thanks



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