Thread: mcuth v HFC ***SETTLED***

DPA letter sent 25/04/06 for:
1 x Marbles card
1 x Benificial card

Will split threads accordingly when DPA details received

They have until 5th June to reply - bring it on!

Cheers

Michael

Similar Threads:

• mcuth v A&L pII ***WON***
• mcuth v British Credit Trust ***SETTLED***
• mcuth v Intelligent Finance ***SETTLED IN FULL***

Statements since card opening received today for both & cheque sent back. Am not going to split the threads as I'll be sending a claim in for both together....

Cheers

Michael

Totted up charges - £200 on each card, so I'm taking on HFC for £400 total

Cheers

Michael

Prelim letter sent today by RM Special Delivery:

HFC Bank PLC
120 Edmond Street
Birmingham
B3 2QZ

By Royal Mail Special Delivery

Dear Sir/Madam

Beneficial Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Marbles Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF CHARGES

My request
I am writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my accounts since inception. I now understand that the regime of fees which you have applied to my accounts in relation over limit, late payment and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full Breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.


I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore unrecoverable at Common Law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498; the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Wilson v Love [1896]; Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79; Ford Motor Co v Armstrong [1915]; Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd [1962]; Murray v Leisureplay [2004].

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss; instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In
particular, charges were applied after I entered into transactions without sufficient funds in my account and also when I have gone overdrawn without authorisation. The actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.

UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are
calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50).

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of your loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your
charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the scope of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair
penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:
‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the
object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high
sum in compensation’.

0n 26 July 2005, the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would
be likely to award if the lender sued the cardholder for breach of contract'. Because your charges include a large
profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are unrecoverable as an unfair term in contract. I believe that your
charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for incurring transactions which were
ultimately declined by an automated computer system. In addition, it is unfair to require me to subsidise your global debt recovery costs and debt write-off.

It has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary..

Your responsibilities
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now

What I require
I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £400.00. I request that you refund this amount in full and enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

Targets to resolve this matter
I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and write on the assumption that you will prefer to do this rather than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

You have 10 working days, from receipt of this letter (i.e. by Wednesday 5th July 2006), to reply unconditionally accepting my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a further letter before action allowing a further 10 working days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.
After that will be no further communication from myself and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

Yours faithfully,

Cheers

Michael

Received the following letter from the Marbles dept (verbatim, including abysmal punctuation):

Dear {mcuth}

Re: Account XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated 28th June 2006; I have now fully investigated the matters raised.

Default charges are charges payable if customers do not make the required minimum payment by the payment due date, if they exceed their credit limit, or if a payment to their credit card account is returned unpaid. The amount of these charges, and the circumstances, in which they are applied, is set out clearly in HFC Bank Ltd's credit card agreements. We believe that our charges to customers are fair and reasonable.

The OFT has recently published the findings from its enquiry into default charges on credit cards. HFC Bank has carefully considered the OFT's publication and does not accept its findings. However, the OFT's investigation has led to a change in market practices and we have therefore decided, for commercial reasons and in the interests of customers, to reduce our credit card default charges for the future. These changes do not affect charges that have already been applied. Accordingly, I regret that we are not prepared to make any refund of default charges or provide any compensation payments. I hope I have been able to clarify HFC Bank's position on credit card charges.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me to bring this matter to my attention, I am only sorry it was necessary for you to do so. I hope that matters have now been resolved to your satisfaction, however, should you require any additional information or further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on XXXX XXX XXXX.

Yours sincerely

Claire Plummer
Senior Customer Service Advisor
Executive Complaints

I think that's the funniest letter I've seen yet!
Anyway, I noticed that the deadline date was incorrect in my original prelim letter, so come next Thursday (13th), I'll be sending in the lba

Cheers

Michael

LBA sent today:

Thursday, 13th July, 2006

HFC Bank PLC
120 Edmond Street
Birmingham
B3 2QZ

By Royal Mail Special Delivery

Dear Sir/Madam

Beneficial Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Marbles Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Your reference XXX/XXXXXXX

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF CHARGES – letter before action

Further to my letter of 28th June, and Claire Plummer’s reply of 3rd July 2006, I am again writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my accounts since inception. I now understand that the regime of “fees” which you have been applying to my account in relation to “over limit”/late payments and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. My letter of 28th June explains this in detail and Claire Plummer’s reply of 3rd July does not alter the fact that your charges do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of the actual cost of my breach of contract.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £400.00. I require repayment of this amount in full and have enclosed a schedule of the charges that I am reclaiming. I would also contend that as these monies are unlawfully charged, payment should be made directly to me rather than being credited to the accounts.

If you do not fully comply within 10 working days of receipt of this letter (i.e. by Friday 28th July 2006), I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount (plus interest, plus my costs) without further notice.


I look forward to hearing from you by return.

Yours faithfully,

{mcuth}

Cheers

Michael

Received the following "goodwill offfer" today, appalling grammar & punctuation again (dated 16th July - Sunday? ):

Dear {mcuth}

Thank you for your recent communication regarding the above account.

As I have previously explained, default charges are charges payable if customers do not make the required minimum payment by the payment due date, if they exceed their credit limit, or if a payment to their credit card account is returned unpaid. The amount of these charges, and the circumstances, in which they are applied, is set out clearly in HFC Bank Ltd's credit card agreements. We believe that our charges to customers are fair and reasonable.

The OFT has recently published the findings from its enquiry into default charges on credit cards. HFC Bank has carefully considered the OFT's publication and does not accept its findings. However, the OFT's investigation has led to a change in market practices and we have therefore decided, for commercial reasons and in the interests of customers, to reduce its credit card default charges for the future. These changes do not affect charges that have already been applied.

However, not withstanding the above, I would very much like to acknowledge that you are a valued customer of the bank. Therefore, I would like to offer you a goodwill payment of £200.00.

The payment is being offered on the basis that you are agreeing that you will not make any further claims or take any legal action on this matter. This gesture is without prejudice to our right to impose and recover default charges in the future.

If you agree to our goodwill payment, I would be grateful if you could sign and return the enclosed acceptance form and I will be happy to apply the credit to your account.

Whilst I hope matters are now resolved to your satisfaction, if this is not the case please let me know, as complaints we cannot resolve can ultimately be referred to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If I do not hear from you within 8 weeks we will consider the matter resolved.

Yours sincerely

Clare Plummer
Senior Customer Service Advisor
Executive Complaints

So, this is my reply:

Dear Ms Plummer
Beneficial Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Marbles Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Your reference XXX/XXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of 16th July, received today.

I write to reject your goodwill payment offer - it is not the sum I require refunding, nor will I agree to the terms you specify in the agreement.

My “letter before action” of 13th July is very clear on what is required to resolve this issue – full payment of the sum of £400.00 debited in unlawful charges since account inception, payable to me directly. You are reminded that the 10 working days to comply (as specified in my letter) is still in force, and failure to comply with this request by Friday 28th July 2006 will result in a county court claim being brought against HFC Bank for the full amount (plus interest, plus my costs) without further notice.


I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,


{mcuth}

Cheers

Michael

Claim to be taken to Swindon county court today - with interest/court fees, the amount has gone up to £493.46 from £400.00

Will PM a mod when the claim is issued...

Cheers

Michael

Case no: 6SN02737
Swindon county court
Value: £493.46 (£400 + £43.46 interest + £50 fee)
Issue: 31st July 2006
Deemed to be served: 5th August 2006



Cheers

Michael

Received the following from Swindon county court today:

Acknowledgement of Service filed on 09/08/06 - intention to defend all of the claim. Defendant has until 2nd September to file defence.

Cheers

Michael

Can't say too much, but this is settled

Cheers

Michael

Originally Posted by traceyb918

McCuth, just read your thread, i've had a goodwill offer made from Marbles i dont want to accept this i have coped your letter post 8. How do i now take them to court? I have a thread on Tracey v HFc (Marbes) PPI as I'm also trying to get this back. Thank you

I'm not sure what you'll need to do about the PPI stuff as I've not had one of those cases meself. As far as commencing court proceedings for charges go, take a look in the library, as it is all detailed there.

HTH

Cheers
Michael