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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Nathe V HBOS


natheyabdn
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Thought i should start a thread to post my progress regarding my endeavours!

 

24/10/2006 - Good old request for CCA sent

 

In between i did actually send a few "Formal" reminders but still nothing

 

12 working days pass, HBOS now in default of CCA

 

30 further days pass - only received one letter stating "We're sorry for the delay in sending you your agreement, we are looking into this and you will receive a reply within the next 8 weeks"

 

Emmm - sorry but your time is fading fast - and i aint extending it to 8 weeks, would they extend the same courtesy - i think not :cool:

 

Letter sent detailing all payments have ceased etc (See next post)

 

Now awaiting a response.... Lets see what it is! :|

 

Nathe

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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zz

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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HBOSplc

Trinity Road

Halifax

HX1 2RG

 

07/12/2006

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

AGREEMENT XXXXXXXX – MR N WARE

 

Dear Sirs;

 

I refer you to the letter dated 24/10/2006, requesting a true copy of the signed agreement of account XXXXXXXX under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79)

 

I enclosed a cheque for the relevant fee of £1.00, 44 days have now passed since my original request, you are deemed to have received my letter two days after it has been sent therefore at least 42 days have passed since you received it. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are therefore unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to Bank of Scotland.

 

I will no longer be making any payments to this “debt” as it is unenforceable. I now believe that the Bank of Scotland may have committed a criminal offence under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, and non compliance with the original request is a complete defence to any court claim that may be issued.

 

Please also note that you will reimburse all funds which you have taken from my account, I calculate this to be the sum of £1924.32, I require repayment in full of this money within 14 days or I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

I nowconsider the matter closed and no further correspondence regarding payment will be entered into.

 

Please note that the details of my case will be sent to the Financial Services Authority & Trading Standards and they will carry out whatever action deemed necessary.

 

In previous correspondence I detailed the final date being 12/12/2006, however after consulting the relevant authority I have been informed that it is after 30 days of the original request that you may have committed a criminal offence.

 

Furthermore in previous correspondence you referenced account XXXXXXXX I would appreciate if you could provide details regarding the account as I have no knowledge of holding said account.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Oooops - dont know what happened with the last post but here's the letter!

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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HELP!!!

 

Today i have received a letter from the Bank & a copy of the agreement... However it has well passed the 12 working days and further 30 days - at least by 3 further working days, they're letter is dated 2 working days AFTER the deadline.

 

What can i do now?! They committed the offence but it appears they now have the agreement - should i say im not paying and want the money i've paid back and then proceed to court?!

 

Dont know what to do now!!

 

Nathe

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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Hi Nathe

 

What is the agreement for? Unless peeps know what it is you are disputing I doubt whether they will be able to answer. I cant tell you anything but thought this would bump the thread.

 

Annie

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi Nathe

 

What is the agreement for? Unless peeps know what it is you are disputing I doubt whether they will be able to answer. I cant tell you anything but thought this would bump the thread.

 

Annie

 

Sorry, should of said - its for a Personal Loan, Sent another letter off to them stating they committed a criminal offence as its way past the allowed period even though they provided the document, in addition to that they gave me another customers Account Number so they have also broken the Data Protection Act!!!

 

So as i said, letter has been sent detailing i relinquish all responsibility to the said debt and told them to write it off without detrimental effect to my Credit File as they have committed a criminal offence and an offence under the DPA, also said that if they fail to comply i will report them to the FSA, Information Commissioner & the Police for whatever action required.

 

Lets hope i get a positive response!

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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Hi there

 

I dont know if that will work!!! They have sent you the document and so you now have a copy so if it is signed by you both and is in order I think you will have to pay the debt. I would imagine that it is a completely different thing altogether to take forward their non-compliance with CCA.

 

My understanding is that if the bank can produce the agreement at any date then the debt is enforceable. I dont think the fact that they didnt supply it on time makes the debt unenforceable although I may be wrong.

 

I dont obviously know the ins and outs of your situation but these are just my thoughts.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

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Well, We can live in hope, lol!

 

Hopefully they'll adhere to my request to save me going to court etc, but if need be i'll just have to go :-/

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Everyone,

 

Really need some help and advice - got a response from HBOS, seems like a fob off letter..

 

" Dear natheyabdn,

 

I refer tp previous correspondence concerning your complaint about your request for Term Loan Agreement papers. Your complaint has been passed to me in my capacity as Senior Customer Relations Manager for final review.

 

My understanding of your complaint is that you are unhappy with the delay you experienced in obtaining your Term Loan Agreement papers. You advised that you wrote to the bank on three occasions and never received a response. You comment that a member of staff confirmed that the bank did receive the letters, however my colleague Kevin Smith later advised that he was unable to trace any record that they had been received. You state that the Bank have exceeded the timescale in providing you with the requested information and that due to this the Bank have committed a criminal act under section 77(1) and section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You state that the debt is now unenforceable. You have alos advised that the Bank have provided you with information of another customer and as a result have breached the Data Protection Act.

 

Please accept my apologies for the differing information you state you have been given with regards to the Bank receiving your initial letters. I can confirm that i have been unable to trace any record of the Bank receiving these, although i note you state a member of staff has confirmed to you that they were received.

 

Having fully investigated your concerns, I would advise that section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not apply to Term Loans. Having liaised with our Legal Department i can confirm that under section77(1) of this act, the bank cannot take any enforceable action with regards to a customers Term Loan during the period of time whereby the Bank have not provided a customer with their request for Term Loan Agreement papers.

Once the bank have provided the papers to a customer then enforceable action can be taken should the customer fail to meet the payments.

 

As you are aware Term Loan papers were provided to you by my colleague Kevin Smith in his letter sent to you date 13/12/2006. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay you may have experienced in providing you with this information. I can confirm that the outstanding sum on this loan remains payable and i would urge you to continue making payments.

 

You will know that the Bank takes Data Protection very seriously and as you stated the bank previously sent you information relating to another customer. I would ask you to provide evidence of this. I would request that you return this information to us in order that we can investigate this matter further.

 

Having considered all the circumstances of the case it seems we have reached the position where no further explanations will serve any useful purpose.

 

To comply with legislation.... They go on to give me FOS address etc."

 

Can someone advise further - is this just a fob off whilst they cover there tracks... whats the next course of action i should take? Should i stand my ground or give up?!

 

Thanks in advance guys.

 

Nathe

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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HI Nathe

 

My understanding is that the bank are correct in what they say. While the papers could not be found you could exercise your right. However, the bank did provide them and therefore the debt is enforceable under law. I would urge you to continue to make payments to avoid further action or defaults being registered against you.

 

I suppose you could report them under the Data Protection Act for providing you with somebody elses details but I dont think that will solve anything for you.

 

What are/were you hoping to achieve here? If we know what you expected then we can give you some practical advice.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

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Hi,

 

Basically as they took so long to get me the relevant documents i dont want them thinking they can casually give them to me when they see fit - they committed and offence, infact two - one under CCA & the other under Data Protection.

 

Therefore if i can get some or all of the debt written off due to that would be a positive note. How would i go about this? I was told before that as they have committed a criminal act that if it proceeded to court then the judge is likely to punish them by reducing the amount outstanding.

 

Is this likely - what sort of letter should i send in response to the banks?

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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Hi Nathe

 

I know its very frustrating but I'm afraid I believe that the Bank have fulfilled their obligations, albeit a bit late. Any judge will look at the law and under the law you have been supplied with the copy agreement and therefore the debt is now enforceable.

 

You could perhaps try writing to the Bank with the details of their breach of the Data Protection Act and also ask them for compensation for their negligence and incompetence in dealing with the matter initially. However, I do think they have a right to be paid.

 

I hope this helps and good luck.

 

Kind rgards

Gemspan

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Thanks for your reply. Just a note to say they have since sent another letter stating Term Loans are not covered by the CCA - Its under 25K so i thought any form of personal lending was covered under that amount? It even says on the agreement "You'll be bound by the CCA"

 

Also i had a chat with a solicitor and they said they were late with providing the documents, which a judge wont be very impressed with, added with that due to the fact they gave me someone elses account number on two occassions again it goes against them. The solicitor told me that i am in the driving seat and should negotiate new terms even a new amount, if they do not comply got to the FSA, Information Commisioner & Police.

 

Apparently the action that can be taken for breach of the CCA alone is a fine of £2500 & 6 months in prison!!

 

Any advice on what to do? Is it ok to mention i would be able to get help from the Consumer Action Group? I'll donate once everything gets sorted :)

 

Nathe

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UNTIL MY CASES ARE RESOLVED/WON IM GOING TO KEEP MY SIGNATURE BLANK AS IM AWARE THE BANKS TEND TO TRAWL ON SOME OF THESE FORUMS AND AS MY CASE IS A LITTLE COMPLEX IT WOULD BE EASILY SPOTTED

 

DONT WORRY - THE INFO SHALL RETURN ONCE THE CASE IS RESOLVED/WON

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