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Right i wonder if someone "anyone" could ansere this for me?
In October 2006 i won two auctions from the same seller with feedback of over 3000, some good some not good, but i thought well, maybe because of the amount of feedback he has got, the law of averages you are gonna get someone who is not entirley happy with the item/delivery etc so he will have some bad feedback.
Anyway, won the auctions £36.50 in all, and paid same night via paypal.
After a number of weeks went by i contacted the seller and he replied straight away saying that the item had been sent, and he would send another one out on Monday, and if the first one should arrive please let him know.
Ok!
He also went on to explain that the items do not come from the Uk and he states in the ad delivery takes upto 10 days..
OK!
So this week i launch a complaint with ebay who immediatly transfer me to paypal, so i go through the process of the complaint and find out that he has now 20 days to reply?
Why 20 days, he hasnt sent the goods?
Why cant paypal simply deduct the EDIT money from his account?
Why do ebay simply pass you onto paypal because youve paid using paypal?
The items are available on ebay, surely they have some responsibilty to me (the purchaser)...dont they?
Anyway, i know there must be many people who have similar probs , just really want some advice on the best place to start?
Can I start action against ebay/paypal?
eBay have succuessfully auctioned an item on behalf of the seller. As you paid through paypal you are protected through them as long as the item(s) were sent to your verified address and not over the amount of £500.
You are free to report the seller to eBay using their dispute console. In the meantime, wait and see how the PayPal investigation goes.
And if you paid the seller the money hasn't been "stolen". So far it's your word against theirs, thats why PayPal need to investigate!
File an "Item Not Received" dispute via the My eBay console - if the seller cannot provide sufficient proof of sending/delivery, they'll most-likely end up with a slap on the wrist. paypal are the ones who are able (or not) to recover your money.
The BidsterMeister Helper of the hapless and hopeless...
Bidstermeister, hello,
i tried to do this thru ebay and it said we are now directing you to paypal as the item was paid thru paypal?
121o121, hello
Unfortunalty i am gonna have to disagree slightly ...and i am probably wrong here but although i did indeed pay the seller for items not recieved, he (the seller) has never shown any evidence at all as to any item being sent, but i think this has got to come under the theft Act 1968-1998 the fraud act 2006
IE: theft dy deception.= stolen
Like i say i may well be wrong but all i know is i paid for two auctions and havent recieved either of them?
Yes the items value was under £500, it was only £36.50, so hopefully ?
Anyway thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply.
Just out of curiosity, would both these companies be under some sort of legal responsiblity?
Your contract of sale was with the seller, although you do have some form of protection through ebay and paypal, as they both have (on the face of it, or prima facie) allowed a fraudulent seller to enter into a contract with you with no intention of sending you the item and taking your money and running.
Where the responsibilities lie is something I think most solicitors around the country are trying to figure out!
When it comes down the the bare facts, ebay and paypal would probably be considered 'third parties' under the Contract (Right of Third Parties) Act 1999, although I must confess this is something I am not 100% on.
They do offer a refund service; on ebay, you will only get a partial refund of the amount owed, as they deduct amounts but paypal usually credit your account with the amount you paid and deduct it from the sellers.
For a certain amount of time after the sale, I believe you can hit a button within paypal to get the money back as well?
Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only
Luckily through all my transactions this sort of thing has only happened to me twice. The unlucky thing is despite filing disputes I have never recieved a penny back. These 2 items are still showing as open disputes on my paypal account but the response was/is that they have been unable to contact the seller.
In both my cases the sellers became 'unregistered' as users on ebay shortly after the transactions. Funnily enough both times were around christmas.
I don't think the so-called protection that ebay and paypal are supposed to offer is worth anything. I'd be interested to hear of anyone who has actually recieved a refund.
I gave up in the end, although I was mad the money I lost wasn't a fortune and I got fed up of the long winded email replies (basically telling me nothing) that I got from both ebay and paypal.
Earlier on this year, I bidded for a top of the range microwave for £76 (which was on sale for £200+ everywhere else) and despite using Ebay for over 3 years, and the seller having feedback of 2000+, he claimed the money had appeared in his bank, but didn't clear. After about 3 weeks of him constantly saying it hadn't cleared (despite the cheque clearing my account), he became unregistered and I found 2 other ebayers who had bid on the same item and the same had happened to him.
I could kick myself now for not keeping the bank details and his address (or should I say "an" address) was on ebay when I paid, as he put it to pay. I recieved a refund of £35 (after ebay made their deductions and I had to send off forms and receipts and all sorts of evidence to say I had paid) and it took around 6-8 weeks to go through.
I, personally, think the refund and protection offered through Ebay is absolute crap. However, I now ONLY bid on items when the seller is listed in the UK and you can use paypal. This has only happened to me once though, although when I was in the Police, I dealt with cases involving hundreds of £'s for plasma TVs, computers, laptops etc.
Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only
First of all if you could receive an instant refund because you didn't recieve something, I am now going to go and pay for a wii, and get my £500 back without any hassle (It didn't arrive I swear).
Second, ebay acts as a site for traders to meet, they are not responsible for the sellers themselves its a marketplace, they do ban people who commit fraud however they do not have a way of preventing it, and do show you methods of preventing this. One way is through there own paying system paypal, which will cover a certain amount you spend with them. As they are able to claim this back. If however you pay by cash/cheque you are responsible for this money not them. How do you expect them to pay for it? If you buy something of a market trader do that suddenly goes missing with the £200 u spent on that 'real' diamond ring who do you blame?
Answers to the questions:
Why 20 days, he hasnt sent the goods? Paypal are independent and need proof that the goods have not been sent otherwise anyone can get a refund for just saying they haven't recieved it
Why cant paypal simply deduct the stolen money from his account? They can once he has had his chance to defend himself, its like sending someone to prison without a trial
Why do ebay simply pass you onto paypal because youve paid using paypal? Because ebay are paypal, its the same company, also because ebay is merely a marketplace for traders to meet. You payed via there epayment company, and its not ebays fault that goods have not been delivered
Can I start action against ebay/paypal? If you want to pay court fees for nothing, otherwise no as they have not done anything legally wrong. Do you take the shopping mall to court and sue them for money, because the retailer did something wrong?
I am happy to offer helpful advise in many consumer problems based on my retail experience. I do not represent any company, and any advise I do offer is my opinion and how I understand the law. I have no authority to create any terms for any company I do work for and will just nudge you in the right direction without breeching their trust.
barracad's comments cover items supposedly 'lost in transit', saying that the onus is on the seller to prove postage, and that the seller is liable until the item is 'safely delivered'. If you have a contact address for this guy/company, you could always quote a few acts at him and see where that gets you.
EDIT: And I would never use a seller that uses paypal - I go for postal order or cheque, and wait the few extra days that entails. If you want to know why, go to Paypal Sucks...
Blitz, it's not as simple as that - if you claim a refund through paypal and then you go and reclaim the money you've paid out, supposedly because you haven't received it, then the seller (if genuine) will no doubt show proof that it was sent, and possibly proof it was delivered to the right person at the right addess.
it's not as simple as click-click, your money is back but there are a lot of weblogs out there from people who are £00's in the red with Paypal because of dodgy sellers/buyers and the fact you can retrieve the money back you've sent.
Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only
I never said it was, the person who wrote the question asked why it wasn't like that. I will make it more clear when I use sarcasm etc in my post.
I am fully aware of paypals refund policy as I have tryed to claim before, and I find it completely acceptable. They are doing the most fair thing with there dispute policy.
I am happy to offer helpful advise in many consumer problems based on my retail experience. I do not represent any company, and any advise I do offer is my opinion and how I understand the law. I have no authority to create any terms for any company I do work for and will just nudge you in the right direction without breeching their trust.
I never said it was, the person who wrote the question asked why it wasn't like that. I will make it more clear when I use sarcasm etc in my post.
I am fully aware of paypals refund policy as I have tryed to claim before, and I find it completely acceptable. They are doing the most fair thing with there dispute policy.
I agree 100% with that. I know it takes time, but for a good reason. So far it's a one worded account (i'm not saying anyones lying) but they have to investigate to be fair to both parties!
Thanks to all have replied and i have taken all the answeres to my questions on board!
Perhaps the first post was written in anger for him having my money!!
As ive said in the first post, he had feedback of over 3000, so he was an active seller, and i wasnt suprised that some of his feedback was bad, because with that amount of fb you gonna have someone who isnt entirely happy, so that didnt really bother me?
All i asked for in the emails i sent was for him to prove that the items had been sent, if he had done this then it would be a different matter altogether, but he has not done that and is now ignoring my mail?
So i guess i will just wait for paypal
cheers anyway
Were the items being sent recorded or special delivery?
It is down to the seller don't get me wrong. He has employed the services of presumably Royal Mail to deliver the items. He should therefore be chasing them. And if he has used either special or recorded he can trace them online. If he hasn't then I'm unsure how he would prove it.
Second, ebay acts as a site for traders to meet, they are not responsible for the sellers themselves its a marketplace, they do ban people who commit fraud however they do not have a way of preventing it, and do show you methods of preventing this.
I think that in a Small Claims Court it would be quite simple to show that both EBay and paypal have a "Duty of Care" to the users of their service, and therefore they SHOULD do everything in their power to prevent the possibility of Fraud. For instance, they should physically verify the contact details of a person attempting to register as a buyer or seller, and retain those details in the event the user de-registers themselves at an inopportune time.
Unless this has changed since I have been a member of ebay for years now, you have to register a bank account or debit card to a seller account, therefore verifying information, which is retained and can be used to track a person.
Where as paypal, you need to register a debit/credit card again can be used to trace.
I am happy to offer helpful advise in many consumer problems based on my retail experience. I do not represent any company, and any advise I do offer is my opinion and how I understand the law. I have no authority to create any terms for any company I do work for and will just nudge you in the right direction without breeching their trust.
The only proof of posting that paypal will recognise is a signed for.
So if the seller does not have a tracking number which he would get when he posted it then he does not have a leg to stand on. Therefore Paypal will refund you.
They will have to provide the tracking number as defence
I have been stung by Paypal a few times myelf as a seller. They do not recognise a certificate of posting which the post office will give you when you post a parcel. So even though I had proof I had posted it was not enough and they refunded to the buyer.
Who is to blame Ebay or Paypal?
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Re: Who is to blame Ebay or Paypal?
Originally Posted by blitz
for him having my money!!