Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Well it's come to the point where I don't know what else to do. Have not chosen this as an easy route but after most of my adult life in debt and now having no way out I think this may be it.
If anyone here has been made or chose to be made bankrupt your advice and info will be invaluable.
Will my job be a problem? Will my landlord kick me out? Should I wait until we renew the contract with him before I go bankrupt? I'm so lucky my wife is standing by me but I'm so ashamed to be dragging her through this. I just need some info to help us both.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
As long as you pay your rent then I dont see there being a problem with your landlord if you go bankrupt. When you submit all your outgoings for living expences etc rent etc is included in that as you need that to live with a roof over your head. If you have a joint account at the bank id advise your better half to get their own current account before you file for it if that account has you as the main account holder. Your accounts in your name will be frozen once the bankrupcy order goes through and anything in them used by the OR to try paying some of the debt. I know they cannot touch benefits anyways now, if you are in reciept of benefits change them to go into someone elses or other halfs account till everything is sorted.
Bankrupcy is anything but an easy descision or route to take as I well know but I had no choice as it was making me even more ill than I already am. I hope everything gets sorted and once you have your bankrupcy remember to check that all your creditors recieve a copy of your bankrupcy order unlike I did so they stop adding defaults to your credit file and mark the accounts as satisfied or settled but they will still remain on your CRF. I was discharged in about 4-5 months through early discharge due to my circumstances but usually its 1 year I think.
If you are on benefits there are charity funds you can apply to for the fee for your bankrupcy and depending on your circumstances.
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to consider an IVA first I think. Longer to clear but it is maybe an easier way to go. I think I need to have a chat with CCCS.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
Blackrain, just check your tenancy agreement as some, though not many have a clause that excludes bankrupts. Its important to check that going bankrupt does not impact on your housing. An outside chance but important to confirm.
Nothing on agreement. But it runs out soon so worried they just won't renew.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
What sort of tenancy do you have blackrain, is it assured, assured shorthold, fixed term etc? Some tenancies as you are probably aware, do not have to be renewed as such, if the landlord does not renew,they just convert to statutory periodic.
Also dont feel ashamed regarding bankruptcy, feel positive that you are tackling your debt. The size of your debt may be an important factor regarding what way you wish to go. Also, you mention bankruptcy and your job, what do you do for a living as some jobs are affected, though most are not. If you can give a bit more info, this will help.
Don't know if my advice will help much. I did work for CAB for a while but it's a few years ago now so don't know how up to date I am. Am also trying to help a friend of mine who's situation sounds similar to you.
You don't say what you do for a living? as you will probably know, details of bankruptcy are printed in a newspaper in london whos name i can't remember...london gazette or something? and may also be printed in your local paper. It very much depends on who you work for and what you do. If you work with accounts for instance in may be a problem. The friend I'm helping is a civil serant and he has come clean to his employers off his own back. They have no problem as his job does't involve anything to do with any money, accounts etc.
As far as your tennancy goes, you don't need to disclose this to your landlord. Only problem you could have is if they read it in the paper (you need to think how likely that is....it will only be printed once) and decided it was a problem. But as long as you have kept up with rent I can't see it being a major problem.
Bankruptcy is sometimes the best option to go for if you owe a huge amount of money and have no major assets - the main one being property. I assume you own no property as you're renting?
You are unlikely to lose any of the contents of your home unless they are really unneccesary/extravagant. say for example you have 3 tellys or 2 pcs..that might be deemed unneccesary. If you have a car and need it for work or any other reasonable use..you will most likely be able to keep that too.
I agree also with the previous post...detach yourself from any joint bank accounts. All your accounts will be frozen and it may mean you have to make alternative arrangements for salary etc. for a while. There are still some banks who will let you open account after being made bankrupt...I believe Barclays do.
It's a brave decision to make and not an easy one. I can only re-iterate what the previous posts have said. Get as much advice as you can and only do it when you decide it's the right way for you. I too would recommend the CCCS. They will give you good sound advice.
re the bank accounts - best bets are Barclays, Nationwide and the Co-Op, these banks are willing to give basic bank accounts to undischarged bankrupts as long as there is no record of fraud. (But obviously not any of these that you owe money to on another account or credit card.)
Have an appointment with CCCS on Monday so hopefully will be a bit clearer then. Have no property and nothing of any value.
How will my bank accounts be frozen? Presumably I have to reveal them as they won't show up on a credit search will they? I understand sometimes bankrupts are allowed to keep an account to run bills through at the discretion of the OR.
A lot depends on whether my wife and I stay together. Which would have a bearing on if I stay in the flat etc. Thanks for everyones help.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
Have an appointment with CCCS on Monday so hopefully will be a bit clearer then. Have no property and nothing of any value.
How will my bank accounts be frozen? Presumably I have to reveal them as they won't show up on a credit search will they? I understand sometimes bankrupts are allowed to keep an account to run bills through at the discretion of the OR.
A lot depends on whether my wife and I stay together. Which would have a bearing on if I stay in the flat etc. Thanks for everyones help.
Ive heard that sometimes the OR can mark an account as them having no interest in it but the bank still go ahead and close it as most will not deal with undisclosed bankrupts except with basic accounts. I also wouldnt like getting caught hiding any accounts from the OR for obvious reasons.
No, I realise honesty is the best policy here. So the OR could say for instance my Flex Account is ok as it is basic and has nothing in and it would be up to Nationwide to decide whether I can keep it open? Fair enough.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
Yep but like I said ive heard others say the OR wrote to the bank saying they had no interest in the said account which wasnt overdrawn/in arrears etc and yet the bank still closed it. I think its up to the banks discression if they will risk your custom as a bankrupt or not although I think Nationwide are one of the few who will deal with them as long as theres no fraud involved.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
Re banks - yes, the OR send the letter, but it's up to the banks and they can be awkward. CCCS will advise you on the best way around it for your circumstances.
Re the Myvesta link. Thats a very moving and well written story. Your local library has lots more, and on a variety of subjects. I prefer funny stories though, if I'm in a bookshop and not in the accounting or law sections you'll catch me in humour. Ebooks are also good if you like that sort of thing, but I like to hold paper in my hands.
However... onto business. This is a financial matter. It's about money. You need to detach emotion from it. Money as we all know is no respecter of emotion.
In terms of cold hard fact:
Is your current financial situation viable?
What do you have to gain from an IVA?
What do you have to lose from an IVA?
What do you have to gain from bankruptcy?
What do you have to lose from bankruptcy?
Also, do you have any idea how much the IVA floggers get paid? It's months and months and months before your creditors see a penny, and even from them on their cut of the money you pay each month it fantastic. The informal arrangements with the likes of Bains & Earnst are the same (albeit usually less up front fees and higher monthy charges.)
This is why these guys are desperate to sell you an IVA. They will do anything to sell you an IVA. It's a bit like a bank trying to shove a credit card down your throat, except shoving a credit card down your throat in your situation would obviously be a so clearly bad move even the finance industry has sussed it. It's also why lots of these people can afford a stupid number of adverts on the net, in tabloids and on daytime tv, just like BorrowYourWayOutDebtFinan ce can.
There are lots of people like that out there in all sorts of trades. They make money by saying something is scary and then offering to make it easier.
"The Advantages of the Myvesta IVA are:
1 The Myvesta IVA offers a Secure Account Login Facility
Urm, yeah, ok.
2 In the Myvesta IVA, creditor and collection telephone calls and payment demands will stop.
As with any other IVA, or indeed bankruptcy. To an extent. Don't expect it to be overnight. And remember that creditors get a say in an IVA and can choose to reject it, in which case they'll still be in touch. With bankruptcy creditors don't have the option.
3 In the Myvesta IVA your interest on your unsecured debts will be
eliminated.
As with any other IVA. And not your concern in the slightest any more with bankruptcy.
4 We will perform a Comprehensive benefits entitlement check service to make sure that you're getting all the income to which you're entitled.
Or you could speak to the CAB. And indeed you don't need to enter into any type of insolvency to check your claiming everything your due.
5 In the Myvesta IVA you will be completely out of debt in five years or earlier.
As with any other IVA. PS - bankruptcy works a bit faster as long as you haven't been up to anything dodgy and worthy of a Bankruptcy Restrictions order.
Watch out though!!! If your IVA fails the office holder will petition for your bankruptcy. What happens if you pay into an IVA for four years, lose your job, get made bankrupt and have your credit record utterly screwed from then for another six years, and pay into a bankruptcy (at a lower rate) for 3 years?
6 In the Myvesta IVA you will only need to make one single monthly payment and we will handle everything for you.
Bankruptcy revolves around the same monthly payment thingy. And if heaven forbid you lose your job it's not hard to phone the OR and say you've got no money.
7 In the Myvesta IVA you will have a dedicated account manager that you can call for free at anytime.
Ah... actually... to be honest... that's your advantage, as long as they keep it up. I'm afraid your ORs office will be a normal phone number, and some of the other IVA hawkers use nasty 087no numbers
8 In the Myvesta IVA you have protection from court actions.
... to exactly the same extent as with bankruptcy.
9 The Myvesta IVA is not advertised in newspapers unlike bankruptcy.
I'll give them that one. But have you looked to see how many bankruptcies are advertised in the paper that has the legal notices for your area? It's hundreds! You'll be in the best of company, expecially just after christmas. If you don't see any, they are either too well hidden because they use the cheapest space or they use a paper you don't even read!
10 The Myvesta IVA has a much softer or no affect on your professional status as a professional or member of the police or armed forces.
I have pointed out in the other post that you need to consider your job. However many professions will expel you for entering any kind of composition agreement just as quickly as for going bankrupt. If you are in the police or similar, you will need to keep your HR dept informed. Going behind their back will cause trouble you can avoid if you show them in advance why this is your only option.
In short. He wants you to give him money. Ignore what he wants you to do unless it happens that it's best for you.
What is appropriate for your circumstances? You are about to speak to CCCS, so you are going to get the best advice. Approach it openly; it may well be that it is an IVA it may be bankruptcy. It could be something else.
The bankruptcy procedure is a functional one designed to carry out necessary functions, and that will be for you what you make of it.
- It has to be done by a court because the effects are pretty dramatic and deciding not to pay people in full offers you a lot of protection from court actions. It's in the public interest; it's not to rub your nose in it.
- The advert and London Gazette aren't there to let the neighbours know your business - it's there to let people like bailiffs know not to take your door in.
- The Official Receiver's staff have to ask you questions because the Insolvency Act says they have to find out about assets, liabilities, and the cause of your bankruptcy. If you want to think that it's to humiliate you that's the way you'll feel about it. If you want to instead think it's a combination of them performing a mixture of a perfectly reasonable duty to the poor creditors that aint going to get their money and your opportunity to demonstrate that you may have been thick but you haven't done anything criminal, then that's they way you'll feel about it.
- If you try to hide things, bankruptcy will leave you angst ridden about being found out. If you don't; your conscience will be clear.
- If you refuse to tell the OR what you're earning until he gets an arrest warrant out for you and has you dragged back to court, it'll be humiliating. If you go along with what you need to tell them it'll be plain sailing.
- If you make up a really stupid half baked explanation for your bankruptcy or the last page of your statement of affairs that's worse than your kid telling the teacher the dog ate your homework, the ORs staff will be a bit curious and you could be left feeling a bit schoolboyish. If you tell it like it is they'll have no need to question it and move on.
The truth is probably somewhere halfway between the people that say it's the end of your life and the Daily Wail story about care free jack the lads skipping into the sunset.
The only thing I should probably add that hasn't already been said by someone else, but that I'm sure you've realised and that the CCCS will tell you anyway. If you know that you can't pay your debts; stop using any credit cards now. Explaining why you 'borrowed' more money you knew you couldn't pay back when you'd already sussed you were stuffed is a tricky one that could really ruin the "bankruptcy experience" for you! (I think they know what the money for the court fee looks like on a bank statement and tend to ignore it )
Excellent advice from Gingerhead re OR's. Problem with bankruptcy is people put such a brave public face on that it does indeed seem to be like the "Daily Wail story about care free jack the lads skipping into the sunset." It's not. I haven't bankrupted myself because I have seen the reality and it ain't fun. Bottom line is don't go bankrupt unless you have to. bailiffs, DCA's etc. have a fairly short attention span and if you are a tenant they will eventually have no choice but to go away. They might CCJ you and enforce with attachment of earnings which could be employment negative but I think this is rare.
Gingerheid thank you for the time you have put into this. I will indeed speak with CCCS and go in with an open mind. I'm a little worried on the whole bankruptcy thing where you say about writing how I got into this mess. I'm not sure I quite understand how I got this far in myself. I always planned to pay the money back, I guess I deluded myself that it was all going to be ok somehow.
I will let everyone know how I get on. It may help someone else in the same boat.
Barclays - settled and about to claim charges since then!
Morgan Stanley - defaulted on CCA request - ball is in their court
Birmingham Midshires - starting claim 1st March £3000+
MBNA - Settled in full
Amex - CCJ issued against Amex and full refund taken by Bailiffs - cheque received eventually!
Marbles - Full settlement
Capital One - Received full amount plus costs
Very useful thread. It's something I'm considering myself, though I obviously don't want to. I had a very brief marriage break down five years ago, and was landed with paying back all the costs of the wedding (I left the marriage, so it was seen as "my fault"), plus solicitors fees as well as paying rent on my new place and half the mortgage on our house (which we did not make money on when it eventually sold) for eight months.
Basically, I owe £23,000 with no assets and a reasonably small income which barely covers the cost of living let alone paying back debts. I've worked out that even if I pare everything right down, I'm left with £58 a month to pay my non-priority creditors. It doesn't take rocket science to see that £58 a month won't go far towards £23,000.
Up until now I have been managing as my sister lived with me - my landlord allowed this as she was family, although the flat is really too small for two people. She moved out four months ago and since then I've not been coping at all.
I guess over the years I've struggled my way from month to month, always just hanging on by a thread, but the pigeons have come home to roost now and I'm having to deal with not being able to make minimum payments etc.
I'm also finding it hard to get proper info on bankruptcy. I'm still hoping to somehow avoid this, although I have no assets or money for an IVA and in fact don't even have the money to petition for bankruptcy anyway!
Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.
Considering Bankruptcy Advice Appreciated
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Originally Posted by blackrain
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