Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Tracey284 V Citicards

    I have just had the usual fob off letter from Citi Card who state the OFT etc, and that they have changed their charges in line, but they quoted a recent court case in Northern Ireland that they were involved in, claimant v Citifinancial Europe Plc, in which the fairness of the charges was challenged. The court dismissedicon the case, implicitly finding that the charges are fair and in conformity with the OFT guidance and common law principles of contractual damages.

    This was in reply to my lbaicon. Any advice would be welcome please. I am due to send the court letter out on 4 October.

    Thanks so much in advance.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracey284
    I have just had the usual fob off letter from Citi Card who state the OFT etc, and that they have changed their charges in line, but they quoted a recent c ourt case in Northern Ireland that they were involved in, v Citifinancial Europe Plc, in which the fairness of the charges was challenged. The court dismissedicon the case, implicitly finding that the charges are fair and in conformity with the OFT guidance and common law principles of contractual damages.

    This was in reply to my lbaicon. Any advice would be welcome please. I am due to send the court letter out on 4 October.

    Thanks so much in advance.
    Your court letter is the LBA - where are you at
    Read http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tml#post271505 and maybe PM Martin 3030 if you are still unsure.


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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Hi Gizzmo & Tracey,

    Could you please both remove the claimant's name from your posts & Tracey do pm Martin3030.

    All the best

    Zoot


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Not sure what you mean about removing claimant's name. I have a question re monument and want to set up a thread. Shall I continue in this one or set up a new one. How do I set up a new one please?


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    About to issue MCOL but cannot find address of Citi Cards or CitiFinancial Europe Plc that is not a PO address. Can anyone help please? Thank you


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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Hi Tracey

    Have you sent a PM (private message) to Martin3030, regarding your claim.
    If not, then I suggest that you do that as soon as possible.

    If this has been useful to you, please click on the scales at bottom left of post. Thanks.

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  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Thanks for the advice. Have issued MCOL today for one of the Citi Card accounts that we hold. Will wait to see where we get with this one before continuing with second claim.


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Okay - so the copy of the Defence arrived this morning and I am going to type it out below, but there are some points that I do not agree with which I will set out in red after the particular point.............

    1. The Defendant is a credit card company whose registered office is at 87 Castle Street, Reading, RG1 7DX.

    2. The Defendant admits that the Claimant has a credit card account ("the Agreement") with the Defendant which currently has a debit balance of £xxx.xx.

    3. The Defendant avers that the Agreement with the Claimant contains terms entitling the Defendant to levy fees for late payment, exceeding the credit limit and for returned payments and avers that the Claimant was aware of and agreed to the same before entering into the Agreement.

    4. The Defendant denies that the same:

    4.1 exceeded the Defendant's losses

    4.2 are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as contrary to common law and/or invalid under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 or common law

    and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of this by specific reference to the case law relied upon and/or the exact citation and application to the facts of the relevant parts of the sections of laws and regulations relied upon.

    5. The Defendant denies that it has unlawfully debits the Claimant's account. The Defedant avers that the Particulars of Claim do not particularise the exact dates upon which the amounts claimed arose and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this. (They have received the full printout of the dates and amounts of the claim)

    6. The Defendant avers that, between 2000 and 2006, the Claimant breached the contract on no fewer than 38 occasions and that charges of £xxx, not £xxx as pleaded, were debited to the Claimant's account by way of late payment, overlimit and returned payment fees, as per the Terms & Conditions of the Agreement and were paid by the Claimant thereby consenting to the same. (It seems that they have worked out the late payment charges were £72 more than I have claimed andthe payments weren't paid thereby consenting, they took them without asking!)

    7. The Claimant is claiming as a money claim a sum equivalent to that which he claims was unlawfully debited to his account over the term of the Agreement in late payment and overlimit fees. This claim is entirely based on the recent OFT statement on the alleged unfairness of such default fees. The OFT stated that the level at which default fees, though not the principle of default charging itself, was unfair in the context of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts REgulations 1999. It also reported that the fees were, in its opinion, a penalty contrary to common law principles of damages for breach of contract.

    8. The Defendant has agreed to abide by the OFT report and adopt a lower lever of default fees which it has set at the new industry standard of £12. Over the lifetime of this account the Claimant has set is default fees at £25, £20 and £15 (The Claimiant did not set the default fees, the Defendant did!)

    9. The Defendant has made an ex gratia refund of £xxx, which is a sum exceeding the difference between (i) the current default fee of £12 and (ii) amount at which each default fee claimed wascharged to the Claimant, by refunding the same to the Claimant's account (Nothing ever offered or received)

    10. The Defendant avers that that Claimant's claim is not a money claim but a damages actin and further avers that the Claimant's interesticon calculation is not applicable to this action or, if it is applicable, that is is not pleaded with any particularity and puts the Claimant to strict proof that this interest is owed and is calculated properly. (If they have not seen the claim of amounts (point 5) then how do they know whether or not the interest cacluation is correct? This was calculated and submitted)

    11. Save as otherwise admitted, the Claimant's Particulars of Claim are denied and each and every allegation in the Particulars of Claim is specifically denied.

    So there you have it, any comments or help in my response would be gratefully appreciated. Do I have to wait for the aqicon before replying or do I reply directly to this letter from Mr. Brian Smith Solicitor CitiFinancial Europe Plc?

    Thanks in advance.


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder claire78 Informative claire78 Informative claire78 Informative claire78's Avatar

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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Hi Tracey,

    Have you posted this on your Citicards thread? If not, please do so, we can keep track of your claim and offer help there.

    Having looked through what they have sent, it is a standard defence, nothing to worry about at all.

    Press on, nearly there

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Tracey have merged all your posts and put them here in Citi thread with a retitle.

    All of the points you highlite are known defence criteria as used by Citi.
    Lets have a look at this and advise after that.

    Is this account open or closed ?
    If closed has it been passed to DCAicon ?

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    Default Re: Citi Financial Credit Card - Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracey284 View Post
    Okay - so the copy of the Defence arrived this morning and I am going to type it out below, but there are some points that I do not agree with which I will set out in red after the particular point.............

    1. The Defendant is a credit card company whose registered office is at 87 Castle Street, Reading, RG1 7DX.

    2. The Defendant admits that the Claimant has a credit card account ("the Agreement") with the Defendant which currently has a debit balance of £xxx.xx.

    3. The Defendant avers that the Agreement with the Claimant contains terms entitling the Defendant to levy fees for late payment, exceeding the credit limit and for returned payments and avers that the Claimant was aware of and agreed to the same before entering into the Agreement.

    4. The Defendant denies that the same:

    4.1 exceeded the Defendant's losses

    4.2 are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as contrary to common law and/or invalid under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 or common law

    and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of this by specific reference to the case law relied upon and/or the exact citation and application to the facts of the relevant parts of the sections of laws and regulations relied upon.

    5. The Defendant denies that it has unlawfully debits the Claimant's account. The Defedant avers that the Particulars of Claim do not particularise the exact dates upon which the amounts claimed arose and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this. (They have received the full printout of the dates and amounts of the claim)

    6. The Defendant avers that, between 2000 and 2006, the Claimant breached the contract on no fewer than 38 occasions and that charges of £xxx, not £xxx as pleaded, were debited to the Claimant's account by way of late payment, overlimit and returned payment fees, as per the Terms & Conditions of the Agreement and were paid by the Claimant thereby consenting to the same. (It seems that they have worked out the late payment charges were £72 more than I have claimed andthe payments weren't paid thereby consenting, they took them without asking!)

    7. The Claimant is claiming as a money claim a sum equivalent to that which he claims was unlawfully debited to his account over the term of the Agreement in late payment and overlimit fees. This claim is entirely based on the recent OFT statement on the alleged unfairness of such default fees. The OFT stated that the level at which default fees, though not the principle of default charging itself, was unfair in the context of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts REgulations 1999. It also reported that the fees were, in its opinion, a penalty contrary to common law principles of damages for breach of contract.

    8. The Defendant has agreed to abide by the OFT report and adopt a lower lever of default fees which it has set at the new industry standard of £12. Over the lifetime of this account the Claimant has set is default fees at £25, £20 and £15 (The Claimiant did not set the default fees, the Defendant did!)

    9. The Defendant has made an ex gratia refund of £xxx, which is a sum exceeding the difference between (i) the current default fee of £12 and (ii) amount at which each default fee claimed wascharged to the Claimant, by refunding the same to the Claimant's account (Nothing ever offered or received)

    10. The Defendant avers that that Claimant's claim is not a money claim but a damages actin and further avers that the Claimant's interesticon calculation is not applicable to this action or, if it is applicable, that is is not pleaded with any particularity and puts the Claimant to strict proof that this interest is owed and is calculated properly. (If they have not seen the claim of amounts (point 5) then how do they know whether or not the interest cacluation is correct? This was calculated and submitted)

    11. Save as otherwise admitted, the Claimant's Particulars of Claim are denied and each and every allegation in the Particulars of Claim is specifically denied.

    So there you have it, any comments or help in my response would be gratefully appreciated. Do I have to wait for the aqicon before replying or do I reply directly to this letter from Mr. Brian Smith Solicitor CitiFinancial Europe Plc?

    Thanks in advance.

    Point 5 They usually do say this but you can show you did.


    Point 6 Many of Cities defences with other claims have overstated the amounts,this again not unusual.

    Point 8 God knows how they work this one out ?

    Point 9 This is looking like a standard reply that obv is not applicable to you


    Point 10 Absolutely correct what you say.

    All in all nothing new then ...................
    the bungling continues.

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  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Hi there and thanks for your help. Account currently open but hasn't been used in absolutely ages. Presumably next stage is for me to receive the aqicon which I will then ask for help in completing please.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracey284 View Post
    Hi there and thanks for your help. Account currently open but hasn't been used in absolutely ages. Presumably next stage is for me to receive the aqicon which I will then ask for help in completing please.
    Yep - post on here when you get AQ.


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  14. #14
    Platinum Account Customer lickthewallfatboy Highly informative lickthewallfatboy Highly informative lickthewallfatboy Highly informative lickthewallfatboy Highly informative lickthewallfatboy Highly informative lickthewallfatboy Highly informative

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    it appears that they have finally got the message that our case did not set a precedent,is not applicable to England,and is subject to an appeal.

    We didn't get a mention once in that "defence"


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Quote Originally Posted by lickthewallfatboy View Post
    it appears that they have finally got the message that our case did not set a precedent,is not applicable to England,and is subject to an appeal.

    We didn't get a mention once in that "defence"
    If you fame is fading must be time to up the profile again

    AFAIK they have been only writing about you in letters not defences.


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  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Hi Guys and the aqicon arrived today and it has been transferred to the area where the claimant lives (thank goodness!) It has to be completedand returned with £100 by 13 December 2006. Please can I have some guidance on completing the AQ. Their defence is stated in my earlier thread. Thanks Tracey284


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder lancasterchelsea Novitiate

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Tracey I have had 1/2 bottle of best Australian red...... but...
    do you have to pay £100 for aqicon...... I think you are below threshold
    check with others before you part with your hard earned

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  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder Tracey284 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    Enjoy the other 1/2!!!

    I do believe it is standard that I have to pay the £100 court fee but presumably will get it back when I win (hopefully) - please clarify this. Is the small claimsicon track the most suitable track for this claim?


  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder lancasterchelsea Novitiate

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    I put in my aqicon for Citi claim last week, and went through it with clerk. It is for approx £800. No mention of paying anything.

    KBO
    If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

    Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

    CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

    RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

    Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

    First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

    plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.
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  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder lancasterchelsea Novitiate

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    Default Re: Tracey284 V Citicards

    My claim against Citi is titled "small claimsicon track"..... seemed no problem at the county courticon.

    KBO
    If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

    Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

    CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

    RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

    Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

    First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

    plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.
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