Hello,

I recently got back from a holiday in Portugal where our flight was delayed by 3 hours going out there.

I submitted the claims form and this is the rubbish I get back;

Dear XXXXX

Flight No. XXXXX Gatwick to Faro 25th June 2017

Further to your claim for delay compensation, we are writing to advise the outcome of our investigation into your case.

Monarch Airlines aims as its first priority to provide its passengers with a safe and efficient service. We are sorry for the delay you experienced that has led to your claim for compensation. We would like to reassure you that every reasonable effort is made to ensure that our flights depart on time and in the unlikely event we are unable to do so through disruption, we aim to provide a solution at the earliest opportunity.

As previously advised, in some circumstances passengers may be entitled to compensation for delay arising from such disruption under European Union laws. However, any monetary payments are subject to certain criteria being satisfied. Under these laws where the disruption is caused by an ‘extraordinary circumstance’ which the airline was reasonably unable to prevent, the carrier is not obliged to pay compensation. The Civil Aviation Authority and European National Enforcement Bodies have published guidelines regarding what can and cannot be considered as extraordinary circumstances and we base our decision on these guidelines.

Our records show that due to high winds three of our aircraft were unable to return from Spain and were forced to remain overnight in Arrecife on 24th June. As a consequence of these aircraft being unavailable for their planned flights as a result of the weather, there was severe disruption across the entire flying programme. This led to a number of flights being cancelled leaving many passengers unable to travel to their intended destinations.

However, and in order to avoid cancelling your flight, our operations team were able to implement changes to the flying programme and utilise our standby aircraft. Unfortunately and despite our best efforts this did lead to the unavoidable delay to the departure of your flight.

Having considered the factual background of this case in accordance with the published guidelines and applicable case law, we are satisfied that the disruption was caused by an extraordinary circumstance that could not have reasonably been prevented by Monarch Airlines. We are, therefore, unable to accept your claim for compensation for the reasons given.

All flight delays are fully documented in accordance with the requirements of our regulator and the relevant legislation in place. Please note that this documentation cannot be disclosed to passengers nonetheless we actively supply this to the Civil Aviation Authority and National Enforcement Bodies upon request.

Yours sincerely

XXXX XXXXX

EU Claims Advisor

Monarch

I find this unacceptable as the delay was caused by flights the day before!

Also if it was caused 24 hours before they had ample time to inform us. This also lead to us missing the first day of our villa as we didn't arrive until the early hours of the 26th June.

I would appreciate your input on this and advice as to whether I am being unreasonable and I am not entitled to compensation. Or the best way to proceed in getting compensation that might be due.

Kind Regards,

tissot

page not found

well it seems all the authorities pages not found - wonder why they withdrew from giving info

Their explanation seems plausible, but you have to check with caa if the flights were really grounded for high winds.

It's not unusual for airlines to make up porkeys to avoid paying compensation.

Send an email to caa and ask for full details of the aircrafts that monarch claims of having been grounded.

Caz is pretty good, they gave me a BA flight information exposing some lies.

If indeed the aircrafts were prevented from flying because of wind, I think that it's unlikely you'll get compensation.

The fact that the wind prevented aircrafts to take off the day before is relevant because you can't reasonably expect the airline to have spare planes in every airport in Europe.

If the weather affected your flight directly, then you are not due compensation. If - as in this case - it is caused by a knock on, operational problem, then this is not extraordinary circumstances.

As one of the leading legal firms who specialise in this area have written: "Bad weather must affect the ‘flight in question’ in order for airlines to use it as a defence. If your flight was delayed because of the knock-on effects of a different flight being affected by bad weather, your flight should be claimable."

This is because of the way the Regulation itself it written, which talks about bad weather being an "extraordinary circumstance" (where compensation isn't payable) where there are "meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned" - which isn't the case in your circumstances.

Monarch are slippery on this kind of thing - I had to take them to court myself (and won) - so keep at it. The MSE Flight Delay Forum is a good source of advice for flight delay issues.

nock on problem = then that is their problem as they could lease anoither aircraft to comply with regulation - especially long notice yet failed to inform passengers before their departure, even BA lease Quatar airways aircraft if needed and have done in the past 2 weeks mainly european internal flights

Thanks for all of your advice.

Looks like the first place to start is the CAA to get the information first before I take this any further.

Once I have the information needed, is it a case of I write them a letter stating all of the facts and that if they do not offer compensation I will take the to court ?

Or is that just a pointless exercise and I should just go for legal action ?

Regards,

tissot

Thanks for all of your advice.

 

Looks like the first place to start is the CAA to get the information first before I take this any further.

 

Once I have the information needed, is it a case of I write them a letter stating all of the facts and that if they do not offer compensation I will take the to court ?

 

Or is that just a pointless exercise and I should just go for legal action ?

 

Regards,

 

tissot

You know enough about the circumstances of your delay - what more information do you need?

Write a LBA - and then take them to court if they continue to mess you about (which they will).

CAA unlikely to be of much help - they can't (or won't) make the airlines pay up, even if they agree you have a claim.

Its more to do with the CAA providing written evidence should it go to court, that way I have an authorised body agreeing with my claim.

Would a judge see more favourably with this evidence or am I barking up the wrong tree ?

If I am then I shall start drafting up the lba and get you guys to give it the once over before I send it.

Hello,

 

I recently got back from a holiday in Portugal where our flight was delayed by 3 hours going out there.

 

I submitted the claims form and this is the rubbish I get back;

 

Dear XXXXX

 

Flight No. XXXXX Gatwick to Faro 25th June 2017

 

 

 

Further to your claim for delay compensation, we are writing to advise the outcome of our investigation into your case.

 

 

 

Monarch Airlines aims as its first priority to provide its passengers with a safe and efficient service. We are sorry for the delay you experienced that has led to your claim for compensation. We would like to reassure you that every reasonable effort is made to ensure that our flights depart on time and in the unlikely event we are unable to do so through disruption, we aim to provide a solution at the earliest opportunity.

 

 

 

As previously advised, in some circumstances passengers may be entitled to compensation for delay arising from such disruption under European Union laws. However, any monetary payments are subject to certain criteria being satisfied. Under these laws where the disruption is caused by an ‘extraordinary circumstance’ which the airline was reasonably unable to prevent, the carrier is not obliged to pay compensation. The Civil Aviation Authority and European National Enforcement Bodies have published guidelines regarding what can and cannot be considered as extraordinary circumstances and we base our decision on these guidelines.

 

 

 

Our records show that due to high winds three of our aircraft were unable to return from Spain and were forced to remain overnight in Arrecife on 24th June. As a consequence of these aircraft being unavailable for their planned flights as a result of the weather, there was severe disruption across the entire flying programme. This led to a number of flights being cancelled leaving many passengers unable to travel to their intended destinations.

 

 

 

However, and in order to avoid cancelling your flight, our operations team were able to implement changes to the flying programme and utilise our standby aircraft. Unfortunately and despite our best efforts this did lead to the unavoidable delay to the departure of your flight.

 

Having considered the factual background of this case in accordance with the published guidelines and applicable case law, we are satisfied that the disruption was caused by an extraordinary circumstance that could not have reasonably been prevented by Monarch Airlines. We are, therefore, unable to accept your claim for compensation for the reasons given.

 

All flight delays are fully documented in accordance with the requirements of our regulator and the relevant legislation in place. Please note that this documentation cannot be disclosed to passengers nonetheless we actively supply this to the Civil Aviation Authority and National Enforcement Bodies upon request.

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXXX XXXXX

 

EU Claims Advisor

 

Monarch

 

I find this unacceptable as the delay was caused by flights the day before!

 

Also if it was caused 24 hours before they had ample time to inform us. This also lead to us missing the first day of our villa as we didn't arrive until the early hours of the 26th June.

 

I would appreciate your input on this and advice as to whether I am being unreasonable and I am not entitled to compensation. Or the best way to proceed in getting compensation that might be due.

 

Kind Regards,

 

tissot

What was the flight number, scheduled arrival time and actual arrival time.?

Hi Disgruntled,

Details are as follows,

ZB214 Gatwick to Faro 25th June 2017

Scheduled arrival: 1900hrs

Actual arrival approximately: 2215hrs

Regards,

tissot

The NWNF online calculators (that have a database of flights deemed eligible for compensation) reckon this flight qualifies for €400 compensation.

I really wouldn't bother with the CAA - on past form they'll take ages to respond and even if they write you a helpful letter, you're not going to need this to win your case. But if you're in no rush, it certainly shouldn't do any harm to write. (The CAA isn't on the passengers' side though - they produced a list of "extraordinary circumstances" which exempted the airlines from a range of scenarios for which compensation was legally due - and had to withdraw it when the Supreme Court said it was nonsense.)

Hi Disgruntled,

 

Details are as follows,

 

ZB214 Gatwick to Faro 25th June 2017

 

Scheduled arrival: 1900hrs

 

Actual arrival approximately: 2215hrs

 

Regards,

 

tissot

Hi Disgruntled,

 

Details are as follows,

 

ZB214 Gatwick to Faro 25th June 2017

 

Scheduled arrival: 1900hrs

 

Actual arrival approximately: 2215hrs

 

Regards,

 

tissot

Records show that flight landed at 22.10 WEST.

On the face of it you do have a claim and I would write back to Monarch stating you do not accept their excuse of extraordinary circumstances as the met event didn't affect your specific flight.

I am currently drafting the lba as we speak, the Monarch 'eu compensation form' that I originally filled outlines this :

Guidance on Regulation 261/2004

1) EU Regulation 261/2004 provides that, in the event of cancellation or long delay, passengers are

entitled to compensation in certain situations.

2) If your flight arrived at its destination more than 3 hours behind schedule, then you may be entitled to

compensation. The amounts of compensation payable are:

i) Euro 250 for flights of 1500km or less

ii) Euro 400 for Intra-Community flights of greater than 1500km & all other flights

between 1500 and 3500km

iii) Euro 600 for all flights over 3500km*

Note: *If we are able to offer an alternative flight and your arrival is within 3 and 4

hours of your original scheduled time of arrival, then the compensation

payable is reduced by 50%

I am claiming for two passengers including myself so going by the guidance should the compensation not be 2 x Euro 250 = Euro 500 ?

Will get the lba posted up hopefully today for you guys to have a pick at (Please bare in mind this is the first lba I have ever done so will probably need some help)

regards,

tissot

I understand that in the lba is the time to ask for documentation in accordance with the PA on Pre-Action Conduct.

Is there anything I should ask for. They did state in their response that they cant disclose the flight delay details and that information is give to the CAA.

Or should I just skip the request ?

If you Google my name and "flight delay compensation you can find on dropbox a guide I wrote after my own fight with Monarch. I included a draft LBA - which doesn't need to be too complex.

I used a template from Which as my base.

Input is appreciated

I a now pursuing the claim for 3 other friends who were also on the flight. So in total its 5 claims!

letter-before-action-monarch.pdf

I have ripped off their own closing paragraph as well, thought I would throw their own words back at them!

That's fine for a LBA. But be aware that if you're making a claim for more than one person, you wont be able to do it on MCOL (online) but will need to complete a paper form (N2 I think).

Does having multiple claimants complicate things at all ?

Otherwise I can do it just for myself and then the others should just be able to claim if I win the case?

I really do think you should read the guide I wrote - it answers all these questions and more (even if I say so myself!)

I really do think you should read the guide I wrote - it answers all these questions and more (even if I say so myself!)

One post-script: there's one other option not mentioned in my guide (it only became live last week I think) and that is to use an Alternative Dispute Resolution provider - there's one endorsed by the CAA (fwiw) called AviationADR, which covers a lot of airlines. Monarch just signed up last week I believe. I have no idea about how genuinely impartial this outfit is, or whether they have any success in getting the airlines to pay out if they find in your favour (the one that Thomson uses - CEDR - doesn't seem too good at getting the airline to pay out, even when they find for the passenger). But I understand the service is free to the consumer, and might (might) be a quicker way of getting your money than court - assuming ADRAviation does what it says on the tin!

One post-script: there's one other option not mentioned in my guide (it only became live last week I think) and that is to use an Alternative Dispute Resolution provider - there's one endorsed by the CAA (fwiw) called AviationADR, which covers a lot of airlines. Monarch just signed up last week I believe. I have no idea about how genuinely impartial this outfit is, or whether they have any success in getting the airlines to pay out if they find in your favour (the one that Thomson uses - CEDR - doesn't seem too good at getting the airline to pay out, even when they find for the passenger). But I understand the service is free to the consumer, and might (might) be a quicker way of getting your money than court - assuming ADRAviation does what it says on the tin!

Thanks for all the info so far Vauban, I have had a brief look over your guide and you have definitely surpassed yourself on that one. Extremely well written! So for anyone looking at this thread because you are in the same situation I would probably go straight to Vauban's guide.

when I get a chance this week I shall take a look at AviationADR before I send the lba.

Regards

tissot

Can we have a link to your guide please vauban?

Can't find it on my mobile