Lisa - Did you manage to find out how many different liability orders the council are recovering?

The local authority cannot refuse to speak with you unless you are not the debtor.

Somehow you need to find out the following:

Whose name was on the bills and notices?

Confirm that the same name is on the LO

What previous enforcement steps have been taken?

Given the severity of the situation, I would write a letter/email directly to the CEO of the council concerned. Head it "Formal Complaint: Stage 1"

Explain everything that has taken place and (presumably?) you knew nothing about this matter as you are neither the liable tax payer, nor do you reside at the property. However, you are the legal owner of the property ant you rent it out via agents. Enclose evidence of ownership and evidence of lettings. Also state your concerns that the council are refusing to speak with you despite it being your property, the fact that there is a threat of forced sale for the relatively small debt of £1,600. State that you need to know how this debt has arisen, how you have become liable for it and what correspondence was sent out prior to obtaining the order as well as to whom and where it was sent. you also need a complete breakdown on how the £1,600 is made up.

I wouldn't overly concern yourself at this stage. I think it is extremely unlikely that a court would sanction the forced sale of a property for such a small debt.

Could it be that there have been periods when the house has remained empty thus meaning that you became liable for those periods?

I agree. However, given the crisis point that this matter has reached, I have my doubts that the council would have made such an elementary and glaring mistake. Notwithstanding the bad publicity and compensation payment, there would also be substantial costs associated with obtaining the charge (which currently will have been added to the debt).

It is vital that we find out the answers to the 3 questions that I posted above. Until we know these answers, it is impossible to determine a way forward.

Have they made a visit to your home? If so, you should have contact details for the agent who made the visit.

On those notices, there should be a contact number for the bailiff who posted them.

You need to ring this man/woman up ASAP and ask if (s)he would be prepared to allow you to enter into a repayment plan.

(s)He will almost certainly say no

Ask if there is a possibility that you may do so under a controlled goods agreement

Again, the answer is probably going to be no

Try to stall and ask if you can have a few days to see if you can get the funds together. Then post back here ASAP.

The £1350 ceiling only applies to business assets. As you stated in post #1 that you are subject to an AOE, there is no limit in your case.

Please contact the bailiff as I suggested and then post back

Beckz - it wouldn't harm for you to write to Bryan Carter now and raise concerns of your belief that the debt was statute barred at the time the claim was issued. Give them the option that if they believe otherwise, to furnish you with the evidence that they are reliant on. See what comes back.

You may even find a solicitor who might consider making the application on your behalf. If you do need to make the application yourself, I would urge you to take heed of the guidance note for question 10. The guidance states clearly that there are three different options available to you, should you wish to provide evidence in support of your application:

1. A witness statement

2. A statement of case

3. Written evidence (in the box provided at question 10)

Sending a letter into the judge is entirely inappropriate.

It would have to go to Lowell then.

Correct - The letter was advised for an N244 application (contrary to the options available)

In ALL applications there are the same 3 options:

1. WS

2. SoC

3. Fill out the box provided at question 10.

Nowhere in either guidance or CPR does it state that letters to the judge are an option.

A properly and effectively completed application does not require a letter to the judge as the facility already exists to provide concise and clear information without the need to digress from the above.

I see nowhere in CPR, guidance or indeed anywhere that states that a letter is all that is required for a redetermination but given that the judgement was some 700+ days previous and not 14 days, it doesn't much matter.

If you are submitting an application via the N244 (which is usually the case) then you should attach any subsequent information via question 10. Hence the question:

What information will you be relying on, in support of your application:

the attached witness statement

the statement of case

the evidence set out in the box below

If it were an open book, there would be no point whatsoever in providing these very specific options.

The removal notice is not a prescribed notice. Therefore it doesn't matter what is on there.

Do you own a car?

What income are you currently receiving?

What would you ideally like to do about this in terms of repaying it?

OK

I've said my piece - You've said yours

It is food for thought for the OP further on down the line.

If she is able to engage a solicitor then it is 99.99% certain that the course of action that I stated will be pursued.

If she decides to go it alone then she has two options on how she will be able to proceed.

They can remove but it's unlikely. Provided that you are confident that your car is safe, there is little the bailiff can do.

As you have been on sick, have you checked that all available discount has been claimed?

You likely won't be entitled to a discount if a second adult resides there.

You might be able to backdate a claim for the 3 weeks that you were sick, if your daughter was on benefits

I said write to the creditor, NOT ring them.

In the case of a SB dispute, the parties should first try to resolve the matter amicably before bulldozing in with court action. This of course would involve the writing of a letter to the other side. If the other side then choose to reply with a "pay or we will enforce" answer (which would not be the case here as the OP is in the process of setting up a repayment plan through the courts), then an application should be made.

The application will normally be made on an N244 form although as Andy pointed out, the form is not mandatory, it is the notice that is required. Quite why anybody would want to construct their own notice is beyond me and in practice, everyone uses the N244. Indeed, researching this vast forum, I can't find any post where a debtor has been advised to construct their own application notice.

If you see little difference between a phone call and a letter then there really is no hope for you.

As I have previously stated, the SB thing is for the future but there is no reason why the ball cannot start rolling now by writing a letter (that can be added to a witness statement as an exhibit at a later date [CPR32]) She can always do nothing of course, plough right in with an application and write a letter to the judge.

Recommending people take heed of the advice of others is no skin off my back - I am not getting paid for my time on here, I do it as a volunteer in order to help others.

I would say to the OP look at who has made the mistakes on this thread - It sure as hell hasn't been me. I would then say: Take on board what you have been told by all parties and then go and try to get it verified elsewhere.

DX with the greatest respect - I do not profit by giving advice on any forum, To me, a debtor is a debtor is a debtor, no matter what forum (s)he posts on.

You yourself gave bad advice by claiming that application notices do not need to be signed if submitted online. You were then quite unpleasant when you were corrected.

We are all prone to mistakes - Just ask that daelek you were talking about. He who is guilty of no sin, let him cast the first stone.

You need to move away from this paranoia that people are seeking to create conflict. Correcting misconceptions is not creating conflict - Unless of course you welcome debtors being fed incorrect information and advice.

Please not - Evidence should be accompanied with a statement of truth - if not via a WS then vis the empty box provided at question 10 of the N244 NOT a letter to the judge

You said:

Judgment with payment plan after 14 days...send N244 and fee and request a redetermination...no need for a witness statement/affidavit...simply request what order you require and attach your evidence and I&E

All evidence presented to a court must be accompanied by a statement of truth. Surely you know that? You don't just "simply" attach it, otherwise everyone could present any old cock and bull story as evidence and be immune from contempt of court.

Now if you had told the OP to write that letter and attach the I&E as an exhibit via the box at question 10, although I wouldn't have agreed that, that was as effective as a WS, it would still have been acceptable.

To just tell the OP to attach a letter starting "Dear Sirs" and attach an I & E to that was an appalling thing to suggest.

The Government registrar is hopelessly inaccurate. I wouldn't place any hope in that being wrong. bailiffs don't send people round who do not hold a certificate these days.

I think that you are looking too hard to find fault with what is basically a straightforward task for a bailiff. There is certainly no need to cut corners.

Your options are to contact the bailiff, explain your situation and ask if you can enter into an affordable repayment plan. If he refuses (which is likely) you are within your rights to tall him to "crack on" but he won't be gaining access to your property. After an idle threat about imprisonment, the bailiff will have run out of options and will then be more than willing to accept your offer of repayment - The alternative for him at that point is that the debt is returned to the council, his fees are removed and he doesn't get paid. The downside of course is that throughout this period, your car is at risk so you need to think this through carefully.

Andy - Forget about the 14 day period. As previously explained, the judgement in question was made in 2015, more than 700 days ago.

You advised the debtor to send an N244 with an attached letter to "assist" the court. Within the letter, you suggested that an I&E was included.

Of course an I&E is evidence, as is the letter. Anything that you wish to convince the court of is classed as evidence. CPR 32.2(1). There is a facility in place to furnish the court with all facts and evidence correctly and with a statement of truth attached. If the application is made correctly, all relevant facts and evidence in support will be included. There is no need whatsoever to "assist" the court in any other way.

Anything that an applicant wishes to rely on would be evidence and in the case of an I&E, the statement of truth would mean that the debtor is swearing that the figures are correct to the best of his/her knowledge.

It is wrong to mislead people into thinking that they can submit an N244 and then attach a letter to "assist the court. If (as is usually the case) you are using CPR as the reason for your application, you must be sure to ensure that your application is submitted pursuant to CPR. There is a reason why there are only three options at question 10, each one requiring a statement of truth. They are not just in place for the sake of it.

There was also confusion regarding whether there is any need to write to the other side prior to submitting an application. The answer is a very big yes. As you well know from the sticky that you have posted elsewhere, the overiding objective of the CPR includes encouraging parties to try to settle the matter without the need to trouble the court. This is important as later on down the line there can be costs penalties.

Was the letter that you received today hand delivered as well?

It is important to ensure that the £110 fee has not been added.

As you are now dealing directly with the council, I would check with them. Wait until a repayment figure has been agreed and then ask them to confirm the amount of CT that you are repaying and the amount in bailiff fees.The bailiff fees should be £310. If it's £420 then you need to challenge this.

Ok _ There is no immediate rush for this and the priority is to be able to get the repayment plan set up. The £110 is not going the affect anything until you come to your last 1 or 2 payments. I'd be inclined to play it by ear om Monday and if the opportunity arises, query the 3110.

To forearm you, the relevant legislation is 5(1)© of the link below:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/regulation/5/made

As you will note, a bailiff cannot charge this fee until he visits the property to remove goods. In your case, he doesn't even know if there are any goods to remove because he has done nothing other than knock a door. It is one of those little things that the bailiff industry like to refer to as "human error" an "honest guv" type of mistake that conveniently boosts the bailiffs commission in the process. The £235 fee that you have been charged stands no matter how many times he is forced to visit you. Until he has been able to take control of your goods, he is still enforcing under the enforcement stage.

It is generally removed once they (the bailiff company) are questioned via their client (the council)

There is a facility in place to enter into a formal complaints procedure with the council concerned. If you are not satisfied with the outcome, you may ask the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) to try to resolve the issue. I would personally go down this route before thinking about any form of legal action, for the simple reason that once legal action has begun, the LGO are not permitted to investigate. The LGO cannot investigate liability of a person but she can certainly look at other aspects of your problem. Only once the formal complaint process has been completed would I consider legal action. I'm convinced that the property is not in any danger of being sold, if the figure of £1,600 is correct.

What I would do is go online and check what the procedure is to make a formal complaint to the council and follow this process.

You have excellent grounds for complaint due to the council's complete failure to explain this very serious matter to you satisfactorily. You should set out your complaint to highlight all the key points as you have raised them in this thread and in particular, covering the 3 points made in post #8. You should ask that whilst this complaint is being considered, that all action be placed on temporary hold.

If you can provide evidence of the lettings, it would be of great assistance and also a letter from the agents confirming the lettings.

As a matter of interest, as you were employing agents, surely it was their responsibility to ensure that tenants were aware of their responsibility to pay council tax and to notify the council of the names of the people residing there?

Can you also let us know which years council tax that this relates to?

If it is this year, it could well be possible to negotiate repayments up until the end of March which will give you 8 months to pay.

If a bailiff has not yet visited you, it is vital that you deal with this immediately as otherwise, you run the risk of a bailiff visiting and a further £235 being added to your account.

As Jacobs hands are tied, you may well need to contact the council directly. You will need to do this asap in order to prevent a visit taking place. You will need an income and expenditure prepared, to include in your correspondence to the council.

You need to tell us how much you owe/is outstanding and also whether a bailiff has visited you.