Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder tissot Novitiate



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    Angry PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Hi all,

    I have recently moved to the Winterthur Way development in Basingstoke.

    I rent a property which includes a parking space.
    It wasn't until I moved into the flat that I was given a parking permit and told to use it when parking in my allocated space (This was something that was not mentioned in my tenancy agreement!).

    After moving in I received 2 x 60 parking chargeicon notices for using visitors spaces (Returning within a 48 hour period) to drop off my furniture.

    I used the visitors space as I had to use a different car of a suitable size to drop the furniture off.
    Also my space isn't near my flat its further up the road.

    I kind of understood as I could have possibly been using a space that someone else could have been using, all be it for a very short period of time.
    After paying these two charges from PPM I thought it was over !

    Two weeks later as a result of having to pay 120 to PPM straight after moving in I had to do overtime at a weekend so I was able to pay next months rent.

    The overtime meant staying away with work from the 8/07/2017 and returned on the 11/07/2017.
    When I returned on the evening of the 11th I have been met with 2x PCN from PPM on my windscreen whilst I was parked in my own space.

    Straight away as I approached the car I have seen my permit was not stuck to the top of my windscreen where it was before I left.
    Both PCN's are for 'Not displaying a valid permit' one for 09/07/2017 & 10/07/2017.

    I thought this surely wont be an issue I will just send them evidence of where the permit had fallen (A video from my phone was sent) also a picture of my valid permit.

    After all it is my space and unlike the visitors spaces I could not have inconvenienced anyone as it is 'MY SPACE'.
    They should just accept that and cancel the charges.
    To my surprise I have an email from PPM stating my appeal has been rejected !

    PPM is now giving me the option to appeal to the IAS but from my understanding I don't stand a chance appealing to them either?

    I don't really have the cash to pay the 2 x 60 at a reduced rate.
    Let alone 200 if the appeal to the IAS fails.
    However I really do feel they can't do this.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

    I understand I probably haven't included all the information you guys need to help but I am also not sure where to start.

    I have included the response from PPM in a ZIP file with my name and REG edited out. Just let me know what you need and I will post it up !

    Regards,

    tissot

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    mug why did you blindly pay them....
    your tenancy gives you supremacy of rights far greater than theirs over stupid speculative invoices which they haven't even probably got a contract with the LAND OWNERS to even issue or create contracts in their own name.

    can you complete this please
    one for each.
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...Parking-Ticket

    and go do a chargeback on the sums you've paid them.

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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder tissot Novitiate



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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    I know and don't I feel like one !! I have never had to deal with anything like this so was blind sided by them into paying it.

    Not until I have done a bit of research that I have realised I could have fought it.

    I shall fill the details out as requested.

    For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

    1 The date of infringement[s]?
    - 09 & 10 July 2017

    2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?]
    - Yes, they have rejected and I now have the option to appeal to the IAS
    - Here is the appeal statement I sent them via their online appeals form (Sent on 11/07/2017).

    "Due to the extreme heat on the 09/07/17 reaching 26 degrees Celsius and the car is in direct sunlight all day, the adhesive used for my permit has become unstuck and the permit has fallen off the window and down by the drivers seat of the car. I have not seen this as I have been away for work over the past few days. This is in fact my reserved space as I live in XXX and I do have a valid permit for space XXX. Please see attached video as proof. I can also provide proof of address and witness statements stating that this is my space. I have tried to attach evidence but it wouldn't send over this form. I have sent an email to XXXXXXXXX with the evidence, Under Subject 'PCN Appeal XXXXXX & XXXXXX'

    has there been a response?
    - Yes please see my first post I have attached PPM's response

    Who is the parking company?
    - Parking and Property Management Ltd

    where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?
    - Winterthur Way, Basingstoke
    ......................... ....

    Is it even worth me trying to go through the IAS? Reading up on other threads there doesn't seem much point. However if I word the appeal correctly is there any chance of it getting thrown out?


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder sgtbush Novitiate



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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Playing devils advocate here on your appeal
    ( I agree you shouldn't pay these bar stools.

    Please provide evidence that the adhesive strip fails at the temperature you state.

    Please explain under what regulations you must affix said ticket to a windscreen when you could of stuck it to the dashboard therefore alleviate it from falling!

    Remember I'm playing devils advocate


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder tissot Novitiate



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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Devils advocate is definitely a good idea.

    Good question about the tape. I just assume this was the reason it fell as it was so damn hot! Truth be told I couldn't tell you what the manufacturer or type of tape it is. It was just in the draw! I now understand it was naive of me to assume this was the reason.

    Point to note is that I used double sided tape as I remove it when I use the car as the Permit has my bloody address on it! So it couldn't be anything permanent. As I don't really want people to know where I live.

    The sign says 'Vehicles must display a valid permit in the front windscreen at all times appropriate for the area in which you are parked'

    So not stating specifically I have to affix it to the screen. I just followed what everyone else around me was doing.

    Basically I now realise what I told them doesn't mean squat!

    I just thought as I had a valid permit and it's my space I could easily get this cancelled.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Here is a picture of their sign if it helps at all!

    Attached Files

  7. #7
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Dont know,i can't read or write your honour .
    No contract can be formed as no meeting of the minds!!!!
    😉😉😉


  8. #8
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    doesn't wash as then they shouldnt be driving.
    its a stupid thing to admit too


    you don't need any excuse
    your supremacy of contract overrides their claim..

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    doesn't wash as then they shouldnt be driving.
    its a stupid thing to admit too


    you don't need any excuse
    your supremacy of contract overrides their claim..
    Are you saying that people that cant read or write shouldn't drive???


  10. #10
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    to a degree - you must be able to understand road signs to pass the test
    much like the eyesight requirement


    but anyway
    its totally immaterial.


    supremacy of tenancy over rides their non exist parking contract.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Your right its immaterial
    The interpretation of signs is not reading.
    According to the gov website and department of transport..
    Assistance will be given to those people who require it. This includes conditions such as dyslexia, those who struggle or cannot read and/or write and those who English is not their 1st language.
    Assistance could be having a reader supplied for you, the test in your 1st language or extra time granted.

    I ask you to retract your comment on people who cannot read or write shouldn't be driving.
    I think you'll find your comment goes against equalities act and therefore forum rules.

    The ability to interpret a sign is different than reading a painted banner saying village fete next sat


  12. #12
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    oh stop playing silly games on every thread you go on..


    that's not what I said

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  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder sgtbush Novitiate



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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles...l-requirements

    Its not silly games
    I dont care if your site adminicon
    Your statement is wrong and goes against the equalities act and therefore site rulesicon. Your comments have been reported but they'll prob go to your inbox for inspection....

    Trying to make someone look at a problem from a different angle or throwing up a counter argument as a devils advocate is not " silly"
    I think you need to look up the definition of "forum"

    What it does is strengthens the posters argument and stops loop holes that the offending party could try to use....


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder tissot Novitiate



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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    I could possibly use that, can I just confirm I am literate and my first language is English, however as I didn't state that in my initial appeal to PPM I don't think I can change my story to the IAS.

    I think best bet it trying to prove that they aren't legally allowed to give me a ticket!

    I want to try my hardest to nip this in the bud at the IAS stage so I don't have to go down the route of gladdys then court. Which seems to be the common route for PPM!

    I have attached the section on parking from my tenancy agreement, does this help at all?

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    that agreement nicely overrides their silly speculative invoices
    sadly it wont matter what you sent to IAS


    IAS are run by the same 2 that run gladdies, if you go read like threads.


    dx

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    I haven't appealed to the IAS yet, what is my best course of action?

    Appeal to IAS anyway with a statement that will hopefully scare them off and hope?

    Just leave it and wait for the letters from gladdys?

    Or try and write to the land owner/management company to see if they can get PPM off my back?

    I don't suppose anyone could elaborate on 'Supremacy of Contract'?

    What it means and how it works?

    I can see it being mentioned in a few threads however cant find anything specifically on the subject.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Hello there.

    Have you typed supremacy of contract into the Search CAGicon box at the top of this screen, in the maroon strip?

    Or you could search for the same on the Parking Prankster's website.

    HB

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Parking Pranksters was most helpful, so correct me if I'm wrong as my rental 'Tenancy Agreement' does not state anything to do with parking permits this over rules their signs saying I'm entering into a contract with them?

    I have also had a quick look for planning permission in my area and can't find anything to do with signage for parking?

    Does a parking company need planning permission to put up signs on private land?


  19. #19
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

    Quote Originally Posted by tissot View Post
    I have also had a quick look for planning permission in my area and can't find anything to do with signage for parking?

    Does a parking company need planning permission to put up signs on private land?
    Good point, tissot. Hopefully the guys will be along later.

    HB

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: PPM - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

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