I tried to buy a drone back in 2010 before they really took off, if you'll pardon the pun.

I paid somebody over £3000 to build me a drone via electronic transfer but it all went horribly wrong. I never received a working drone and he took it away to get it sorted out and I never really heard from him again as far as supplying a working drone.

I've contacted him on and off over the years with lots of promises from him that he would pay me back and in my travels found a lot of other people he owed money to. He has also changed addresses a couple of times.

I finally tracked him down to a company in Kent and called him late last year and he acknowledged the debt by email but after more promises have received no payment. I have his work address but no longer know where he lives.

Am I right in saying that as he has recently emailed me acknowledging the debt as recently as November 2016 that the debt is not statute barred?

Where can I go from here? Is it worth pursuing through the small claims court or is it likely that I can get a debit collection company to pursue it for me after all this time. We are about to buy a new house and the money would be very useful.

Any help appreciated.

I am sure others with more knowledge will be looking in on you.. It is my understanding that as the debt has been acknowledged - in writing - then the debt is not time barred. So you would be able to pursue.

You say that he has left other people in the same situation, do you know if others have taken him to court and been awarded CCJs? I think you would probably need to do this before you could hire an agency to pursue for payment. Does he have property you could secure the debt against.. it would surely just compound the problem if you were to obtain a judgment and then not be able to get your money anyway !.

A far as I'm aware, and I have spoken to a few others who he's fleeced, nobody else has taken him to court. I also only have a work address and email for him.

I am also worried about throwing good money after bad but I don't want him to get away with it.

if he has no assets like a house that you could get a charging order against

you can get judgement and involve High court enforcement bailiffs for a £60 fee

One question I'd ask is whether you are chasing a company or an individual? - It makes a big difference.

What paperwork do you have to support the debt even though he has acknowledged the debt?

Who are you trying to contact by email - a person or a Company?

What vehicle does he use to 'sell' his products or services through? i.e. how did you find this guy in the first place?

Was he advertising, or was he just a neighbour or (ex) friend?

Put a bit of colour to this and then a route more likely to get results can be taken.

As for being time-barred - s.2 Limitations Act 1980 states

" s.2 Time limit for actions founded on tort.

An action founded on tort shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

Acknowledging the debt starts the clock ticking again and

s.32 might help too:

s32 Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake.

(1) Subject to [F40 subsection (3)][F40 subsections (3) and (4A)] below, where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either—

(a)the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

(b)any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

©the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

References in this subsection to the defendant include references to the defendant’s agent and to any person through whom the defendant claims and his agent.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above, deliberate commission of a breach of duty in circumstances in which it is unlikely to be discovered for some time amounts to deliberate concealment of the facts involved in that breach of duty.

(3) Nothing in this section shall enable any action—

(a) to recover, or recover the value of, any property; or

(b) to enforce any charge against, or set aside any transaction affecting, any property;

to be brought against the purchaser of the property or any person claiming through him in any case where the property has been purchased for valuable consideration by an innocent third party since the fraud or concealment or (as the case may be) the transaction in which the mistake was made took place.

(4) A purchaser is an innocent third party for the purposes of this section—

(a) in the case of fraud or concealment of any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action, if he was not a party to the fraud or (as the case may be) to the concealment of that fact and did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the fraud or concealment had taken place; and

(b) in the case of mistake, if he did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the mistake had been made."

I wish you luck.

Don't you just despise individuals who take your money unjustly? Line the ducks up for us and we can point you in the right direction.

One question I'd ask is whether you are chasing a company or an individual? - It makes a big difference.

An individual who was a sole trader.

What paperwork do you have to support the debt even though he has acknowledged the debt?

Confirmation of payment into his bank account. An invoice. An email trail where he was trying to rectify the problem and then offered a refund. Screenshots of a couple of Internet forums where others were talking about him owing them money after he didn’t fulfill their orders. A reply to them from his wife acknowledging the debts and begging them to bear with him and he would pay everybody in turn and that he wasn't a bad person.

An email from September 2016 requesting a copy of the original invoice and stating that he hasn’t got much money and that he is not a homeowner. His wife and child seems to have disappeared from his life as his Facebook page no longer mentions her.

An email trail with Trading Standards in Kent who were going to prosecute him and didn’t due to lack of funds. It includes a witness statement from me explaining everything when it was fresh in my mind.

What vehicle does he use to 'sell' his products or services through? i.e. how did you find this guy in the first place? Was he advertising, or was he just a neighbour or (ex) friend?

He had a website. Sadly I don't have screen dumps.

Thanks.

Just one thought and I'm not sure of the answer.

Did the debt become statute barred and then the debt was acknowledged AFTER 6 years. As far as I know that wouldn't allow the clock to be reset.

Its like company writes letter

You owe us £1000 from 2010

Me

Do I? That credit card debt has never been chased and its statute barred now.

Company

You say its credit card and you know about it. Thanks for acknowledging it. Clock reset

Debt was from 2010 ....." I finally tracked him down to a company in Kent and called him late last year (2016) and he acknowledged the debt by email "

Debt was from 2010 ....." I finally tracked him down to a company in Kent and called him late last year (2016) and he acknowledged the debt by email "

When in 2010?

Jan 1st 2010---- Jan 2 2016 statute barred

Jan 1st 2010 Jan 1st 2016 not statue barred.

A day makes all the difference.

Reading between the lines the op says 2010 and then late 2016. This may mean that the debt is statute barred being over 6 years and then I refer to my post above.

Question

If a debtor acknowledges a debt, even if its statute barred does this then reset the clock as per my hypothetical scenario

Sorry. I had to delve deeper.

The original payment was made in July 2010 but we were toing and froing about him getting the drone to work properly, which he couldn’t. He then gave me an option to get it working or to give me a refund. I have an email from him dated 1st December 2010 offering a full refund. Obviously I didn’t get it.

A Statuary Demand was delivered to him on the 8th June 2011 but it was never followed up. My business was going crazy at the time and it was just left.

I then contacted him on the 2nd September 2016 after finding him at a company in Kent using Google and he acknowledged the debt again in an email on 5th September 2016.

So July 2010 payment made refund offered 1st Dec 2010 ...acknowledgement made 5th Sept 2016...6 years 2 months.

A stat demand has no bearing on statute of limitations.

Touch and go then...why have you left it so long?

How long have you got?

The first issue is to identify the correct period. The starting point is the Limitation Act. The most common periods are:

Contract: six years, unless the contract is contained in a deed in which case the period is 12 years;

Tort: generally six years; in the case of negligence, where the loss was not apparent at the time of the tort there is an alternative period of three years from the date on which loss could reasonably have been discovered; in the case of fraud, the period of limitation does not begin to run at all until the claimant has or could reasonably have discovered the fraud;

Restitution: the period will vary depending on the precise ground for seeking restitution; mistake (one of the most common grounds) is six years from the date on which the mistake could reasonably have been discovered.

If the claimant has concurrent actions, normally in contract and tort, it will be entitled to choose between them, even if its only motivation in doing so is because the limitation period would otherwise have expired.

It is open to the parties to vary the period by way of agreement. Often, as the limitation period approaches, a claimant will seek to have the defendant agree an extension in return for not issuing proceedings immediately. Such agreements are enforceable. Similarly, it is open to the parties to agree to shorten the limitation period. That would be unusual where a dispute has already arisen, but is reasonably common in the case of contract claims, where the shorter limitation period is set out in the parties’ agreement. Again, the variation to the limitation period will be enforced by the courts, even where it shortens the period to as little as nine months.

You can always run it from the cause of action......when you decided it was not fit for purpose.

andy

Can you post Te link to the London gazette about the details of the details of the statuary demand you sent. It must be published in the gazette. This would prove that the debt is in dispute and not being paid, and I'm.not even sure a stat demand is appropriate. Were you trying to forcibly wind up his businesses?

Failing that I would say that the timeline started in July 2010 and you might have a problem being that it was September 5th 2016 when you got an email.

If you have any correspondence later than July 2010 that specifically acknowledges the debt, but I'm not sure I an email saying he will refund you counts as the start of the timeline.

Others with better knowledge on specifics on when the timeline starts will answer.

I'm only playing devils advocate.

Or it could easily be argued that the cause of action arose on 1st December 2010 when the offer of a refund was made, in which case it was not time barred when the debt was acknowledged in September 2016.

Bottom line however is whether it's worth even trying to get something back because at best it's going to cost money to issue proceedings, turn up to the hearing, and then possibly enforce any judgement. Unless he has a good job making an attachment of earnings feasible or has property or other assets then winning any argument over limitation, liability or anything else he might throw into the mix is going to be a bit of a hollow victory. You also ideally need a residential address, unless you plan to sue his business - it's not clear if he's still running the same or a similar business or working for someone else now.

So July 2010 payment made refund offered 1st Dec 2010 ...acknowledgement made 5th Sept 2016...6 years 2 months.

 

A stat demand has no bearing on statute of limitations.

 

Touch and go then...why have you left it so long?

I think you have that wrong. It looks more like 5 years and nine months to me...

I made the mistake of paying him 100% upfront and then he built the copter. That took him two months and there were issues with streaming video to the receiver amongst many other things. The drone wasn't like those that you buy in a box now with a camera built in. It was to a carry a professional camera that weighed up to 1 kg and was built from scratch.

I have emails from him from 10th September stating that he was waiting for parts and that he was working on the wireless USB side of things that I’d originally requested and an email from the 18th November that he had screwed up on the build and he was going to completely rebuild the unit with a different gimbal to carry the camera.

Also screendumps of complaints from others who he had fleeced. One for over £5K.

I would say the dispute started july 2010 and acknowledged sept 2016

6 years 2 months to me.

It matters not a jot what he has done to others. Your the only one that matters.

Can you answer the question on the stat demand please

Or it could easily be argued that the cause of action arose on 1st December 2010 when the offer of a refund was made, in which case it was not time barred when the debt was acknowledged in September 2016.

 

Bottom line however is whether it's worth even trying to get something back because at best it's going to cost money to issue proceedings, turn up to the hearing, and then possibly enforce any judgement. Unless he has a good job making an attachment of earnings feasible or has property or other assets then winning any argument over limitation, liability or anything else he might throw into the mix is going to be a bit of a hollow victory. You also ideally need a residential address, unless you plan to sue his business - it's not clear if he's still running the same or a similar business or working for someone else now.

Those were my thoughts as far as the dates are concerned. December 2010 to September 2016.

I don't have his current home address, only his work address.

His business no longer exists and he now has a "normal" job. Interestingly he owns shares in patents for the company he works for. The company has put the patents in his name.

Can you post Te link to the London gazette about the details of the details of the statuary demand you sent. It must be published in the gazette. This would prove that the debt is in dispute and not being paid, and I'm.not even sure a stat demand is appropriate. Were you trying to forcibly wind up his businesses?

Failing that I would say that the timeline started in July 2010 and you might have a problem being that it was September 5th 2016 when you got an email.

If you have any correspondence later than July 2010 that specifically acknowledges the debt, but I'm not sure I an email saying he will refund you counts as the start of the timeline.

 

Others with better knowledge on specifics on when the timeline starts will answer.

 

I'm only playing devils advocate.

Devil's advocate is fine. I just need to know if I will be wasting my time and money.

A solicitor suggesting I go the statuary demand route.

I paid him in advance before he built the copter and he had problems. It was November/December when he acknowledged that he could build another or give me refund.

All communications were done via email.

Well your advice from a solicitor was wrong. Stat demands are not to be used to have an easy way to get money owed. You cannot add on costs. It costs you potentially thousands.

And you should only threaten action if your prepared to see it thru.

The dispute swings on the question -

When does the timeline start.

And that, your going to have to prove. I think It starts in July 2010. Others may argue different. Only a judge can decide.

Start proceedings and see.

An expensive way to find out.

You are suggesting that it will run from the date of the invoice/payment. I have no idea but if something that is a custom build needs to be made with any potential problems that I had to put up with, maybe it is the date of delivery etc.

I will have a word with a different solicitor, I think.

Thanks.

There are a few legal wrinkles which make your question unusually complicated.

It might still be worth pursuing if this person has assets and you can prove money was owed, but it is probably 50/50 whether you'd succeed or not.

1) The limitation period only gets extended by an acknowledgement for debt claims. It does not get extended for damages claims. A claim for breach of contract is a damages claim.

This sounds very technical but it could sink your entire case. For that reason, if you do get to the stage of issuing a claim, you need to phrase your claim as a debt claim because the contract was void for total failure of consideration, not a damages claim for breach of contract.

2) The 6-year period can be extended by an acknowledgement but it can't be restarted.

If the 6-year limitation period had already expired by the time of your 2016 email, that's it - the email wouldn't have restarted the period and your claim would be out of time.

The issue in your case is failure to deliver the drone. Unless a specific time for delivery was agreed, the default rule would be a 'reasonable time for delivery'. I suppose you could try to argue that a 'reasonable time for delivery' might have been 3 months, and therefore if the payment was made in July 2010, the limitation period didn't start running until October 2010.

There are a few legal wrinkles which make your question unusually complicated.

 

It might still be worth pursuing if this person has assets and you can prove money was owed, but it is probably 50/50 whether you'd succeed or not.

 

1) The limitation period only gets extended by an acknowledgement for debt claims. It does not get extended for damages claims. A claim for breach of contract is a damages claim.

 

This sounds very technical but it could sink your entire case. For that reason, if you do get to the stage of issuing a claim, you need to phrase your claim as a debt claim because the contract was void for total failure of consideration, not a damages claim for breach of contract.

 

2) The 6-year period can be extended by an acknowledgement but it can't be restarted.

 

If the 6-year limitation period had already expired by the time of your 2016 email, that's it - the email wouldn't have restarted the period and your claim would be out of time.

 

The issue in your case is failure to deliver the drone. Unless a specific time for delivery was agreed, the default rule would be a 'reasonable time for delivery'. I suppose you could try to argue that a 'reasonable time for delivery' might have been 3 months, and therefore if the payment was made in July 2010, the limitation period didn't start running until October 2010.

This is very useful information. Thank you very much.

The invoice original lead time to build the drone was 15 days and I was still waiting in September. I need to find out what it will cost me to take things further to see if I am likely to be throwing good money after bad.

I think I might have a word with my local court to see if they can help.

I don't think the court will be able to help advise you on the limitation period.

You can find out the fee by searching for court leaflet EX50.

I don't think the court will be able to help advise you on the limitation period.

They absolutely cannot help with this.