Afternoon,

I wonder if you can please help me with this ticket.

Back in November 2016 I unknowingly made a mistake and took a wrong turn to the road where no right turn was allowed between XX and XX hours.

I think about 2 weeks later I moved and was never aware of the offence until February 2017 I was actually nearby my old flat and met postman who I knew and who then handed me a mail which had that ticket with a penalty and from Northampton court etc.

I then phoned Court, spoke with them and was advised to immediately submit 2 forms (out of time and something else) I Immediately processed them both and also provided them with my new address and that I understand I made a mistake and am happy to pay the original penalty charge.

After about 4-6 weeks I received refusal letter from Northampton County court that they have refused my appeal despite me providing them evidence of my new address and that genuinely I never received any previous notices.

I then phoned them again and asked what will happen next and was told to wait to hear from the council.

I have since not heard anything from the council and have been told by new tenants in the previous property that they received a letter from some target collection company which I imagine would be for the same.

The council and collection company still writing me to my old address?

what should I do?

write to council asking them to waive the fee and that I am prepared to pay the original amount or contact the agency etc .

Please help!!!

target collection company?

dx

that's correct 'Target Collection'

can t find them on any company/gov't register

can you scan the letter up to PDF please

follow the upload

Forgive me for my ignorance dx and for wasting your time. I have just checked the papers again and It is Task Enforcement Ltd and not target. The incident happend on Connell Crescent, Ealing E5 for ignoring no entry sign.

No problem

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=Task+Enforcement+Ltd+&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Task%20Enforcement%20Ltd%20

they are bailiffs so don't ignore things.

I have moved & retitled your thread

to the bailiff forum.

What where the forms you completed ?

 

Back in November 2016 I unknowingly made a mistake and took a wrong turn to the road where no right turn was allowed between XX and XX hours.

 

I think about 2 weeks later I moved and was never aware of the offence until February 2017 I was actually nearby my old flat and met postman who I knew and who then handed me a mail which had that ticket with a penalty and from Northampton court etc.

 

I then phoned Court, spoke with them and was advised to immediately submit 2 forms (out of time and something else) I Immediately processed them both and also provided them with my new address and that I understand I made a mistake and am happy to pay the original penalty charge.

 

After about 4-6 weeks I received refusal letter from Northampton County court that they have refused my appeal despite me providing them evidence of my new address and that genuinely I never received any previous notices.

 

I then phoned them again and asked what will happen next and was told to wait to hear from the council.

 

I have since not heard anything from the council and have been told by new tenants in the previous property that they received a letter from some target collection company which I imagine would be for the same.

If you had moved address approx 2 weeks after the contravention, then depending on what you had written on your OOT it should have been accepted. Nothing worries me more than individuals completing Out of Time witness statements. Almost everyone completing these forms has little or no idea what these forms are for and they do not bother to read the guidance notes attached. By way of example, just yesterday alone, I received enquiries from 7 individuals whose applications had been rejected.

In a nutshell, when submitting an OOT you are asking for the warrant of control held by the bailiff to be revoked, the court registration cancelled and for the local authority to 'rewind' the penalty charge notice back to the initial stage to allow you to either pay at the earlier discounted rate or to appeal the ticket.

Even though your application has been rejected, you are still able to have the decision (to reject your application) looked at again. Unfortunately, there is a hefty court fee for such an application of £100 (or if you are in receipt of qualifying benefits, you may be exempt from paying).

As a starting point, did you update either your V5C (Log Book) with DVLA when you moved from your previous address? Did you update your driving licence?

See you've got help running now

I could not appreciate more, thank you all.

I have been trying to find any paperwork of the notice, not having much luck

the only few papers I found are 2 x notices from task enforcement ltd

(which I collected from my previous residence) and HM Courts and tribunals service.

1) 2 x notices from Task enforcement dated 22/6/2017 and 30/6/2017

says this

Who you owe money to: LB of Ealing

The amount: £278

Ref: Penalty charge notice reference

Enforcement details: CAR REG #, Connell Cresent, Ealing W5 (U); 28/11/2016 - Ignore No Entry Sign (MV) 15:11:25

2) HM Courts & Tribunals Service letter dated 22 April 2017;

2 pages, the first page says

Your recent application to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time was refused to the Court officer for a decision without a hearing under Part 75.5(1) of the Civil Procedure Rules.

Your application has been refused,

please find enclosed the order drawn by the Court Officer.

The response from the local authority with regards to your out of time application should have already been served to you.

**Then two further paragraphs but I believe they are standard para that we are unable to assist you any further and if you wish to apply for review, fee is £255 or £100 without hearing.

The order says;

It is ordered that-

1. Under Rule 23.8 of the Civile Procedure Rules, the court will deal with the application for leave to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time without a hearing because the Court does not consider a hearing at Northampton would be appropriate.

2. The application for leave to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement to be REFUSED

Date order made: 22 April 2017

Now to make matters clear,

I phoned the court and was told that I should be receiving any further details from the council at my address, which I never did.

I also never received any responses from local authority with regards to my out of time application as mentioned in court letter.

Furthermore the court letter was received at my new address where as council and that task enforcement continue to use my previous address for any documents.

I feel they are intentionally doing it to add up the fee or else they are aware of my new address and I never received a single document from them on my new address.

All my car documents, driving licence etc were updated in January 2017. (I moved out early December 2016)

I would be extremely grateful for your help as to what should I do now to fix this.

I moved out of property early December 2016 and moved in to new property on 20 January 2017.

(I was away for about a month but had a redirection).

All my documents were updated such as DVLA, driving licence, V5C, Insurance etc

I am not in receipt of a benefit and will be paying £100 if this is what you believe I should be doing.

Thank you for your help, could not appreciate more.

 

I have been trying to find any paperwork of the notice, not having much luck, the only few papers I found are 2 x notices from task enforcement ltd (which I collected from my previous residence) and HM Courts and tribunals service.

 

1) 2 x notices from Task enforcement dated 22/6/2017 and 30/6/2017 says this

Who you owe money to: LB of Ealing

The amount: £278

Ref: Penalty charge notice reference

 

 

2) HM Courts & Tribunals Service letter dated 22 April 2017;

 

Your recent application to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time was refused to the Court officer for a decision without a hearing under Part 75.5(1) of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Your application has been refused, please find enclosed the order drawn by the Court Officer.

The response from the local authority with regards to your out of time application should have already been served to you.

 

Now to make matters clear, I phoned the court and was told that I should be receiving any further details from the council at my address, which I never did.

 

I also never received any responses from local authority with regards to my out of time application as mentioned in court letter.

 

Furthermore the court letter was received at my new address where as council and that task enforcement continue to use my previous address for any documents.

 

I feel they are intentionally doing it to add up the fee or else they are aware of my new address and I never received a single document from them on my new address.

 

All my car documents, driving licence etc were updated in January 2017. (I moved out early December 2016)

 

I moved out of property early December 2016 and moved into new property on 20 January 2017 (I was away for about a month but had a redirection).

 

All my documents were updated such as DVLA, driving licence, V5C, Insurance etc

 

I am not in receipt of a benefit and will be paying £100 if this is what you believe I should be doing.

Thank you for providing a much more detailed explanation. I will try to answer each point.

Given that you had clearly updated your V5C with DVLA within a very short period of moving address, then my personal opinion is that an N244 Application to have the rejection 'reviewed' would be a good idea.....however:

Being past the 14 day period should not pose any problem. That's the least of your worries. What will be problematical is that the District Judge considering your application is very limited indeed in his remit. He can only look at what you had put on your TE7 (Application to file a Witness Statement Out of Time) and the local authorities response. He cannot consider anything else.

The forms were sent to you electronically by the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Did you complete the forms online and return them by email? If so, you should have a copy in your sent items. There is no need for you to copy the forms on here but it would be very helpful if you could cut and paste the information that you had put in the 'reason' box on the TE7 (removing personal information such as addresses etc).

On the TE7 and TE9 you would have been required to put your current address on the forms. I am surprised to hear that Task are continuing to write to your previous address. I would assumed that by now, the local authority would have made a request to the Traffic Enforcement Centre for permission to 're-seal' the warrant to your new address.

What I am pleased to see is that the latest correspondence from Task Enforcement is seeking £278. Accordingly, the amount is still at the 'compliance stage' and the £235 'enforcement fee' has not been applied.

You have a difficult decision. Depending on the information that you had providing on the TE7, you could seek to have the rejection 'reviewed'. There is a court fee of £100 to pay. Your application may or may not be accepted. Instead, you could contact Task and either pay the debt at £278 or make a payment proposal. What you must not do, is delay making a decision.

I will be taking action as advised by your good self as to what should I do. If you feel that best bet would be to contact task and make payment, I will immediately action it.

I have gone through my email and found the following dates and information.

* I picked up first correspondence from TEC dated 25/01/2017 and 23/02/2017, wrote them a letter on 26/02/2017 informing of the change of address and that this is the very first time I came to know about this PCN.

* I also phoned them I think on 10/03/2017 requesting an update and was told to complete PE2 and PE3.

* 20/03/2017 - I then filled up both forms, attended local county court, filled PE2 with the following reasons for filing the Statutory Declaration "I have recently been made aware of a notice and have immediately written back to your office. I moved place of residence and updated all my details i.e., DVLA, V5C etc shortly after. The timings of PCN issue seems to have been caught during the timing these changes were taking place. No previous notices or PCN were received by me and as far as I am aware some mails were returned to sender by current residents.

* PE3 - I marked on both that did not receive the Notice to Owner and PCN, saying the same thing as above.

*I then received TEC response - rejection of appeal dated 22 April 2017, week commencing 24th April I phoned them asking what should I do next and was told to wait and that I will be receiving further details from the council. which I never did and I feel council deliberately kept writing to previous address and mails were returned.

I will be taking action as advised by your good self as to what should I do. If you feel that best bet would be to contact task and make payment, I will immediately action it.

 

* 20/03/2017 - I then filled up both forms, attended local county court, filled PE2 with the following reasons for filing the Statutory Declaration:

 

"I have recently been made aware of a notice and have immediately written back to your office. I moved place of residence and updated all my details i.e., DVLA, V5C etc shortly after.

 

The timings of PCN issue seems to have been caught during the timing these changes were taking place. No previous notices or PCN were received by me and as far as I am aware some mails were returned to sender by current residents.

 

Thank you for your response.

What you entered on the PE3 (sorry, I assumed that you had used the TE7), was not all sufficient. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the application that you were making was a request to revoke the warrant of control, cancel the debt registration and rewind the PCN back to the initial stage. At at very least, you should have provided the dates that you moved address and date when you updated your address details with DVLA.

Another point is that when submitting an Out of Time application, (or stat dec) you are required to outline the reason for submitting the forms late ( Out of Time). You did not do so. What you should have stated was something along the following lines:

Given this additional information, my personal opinion is that I would not pay £100 to have the decision (to reject your application) reviewed.

If it was the case that you were in receipt of qualifying benefits that meant that you would be exempt from paying the court fees, then my opinion would be different. My opinion is also based on the fact that Task Enforcement have only added the statutory compliance fee (of £75) to the account.

understood.. so the best bet would now be to pay task enforcement.

Last question please. do you think it would be any good writing to the Ealing council as to what had happened and that they may be able to consider taking any less?

understood.. so the best bet would now be to pay task enforcement.

 

Last question please. do you think it would be any good writing to the Ealing council as to what had happened and that they may be able to consider taking any less?

Just make sure that you deal with the debt with Task Enforcement before the 'compliance' period ends. This is the date that will be found on the NoE and is the date by when payment must be made in order to avoid a personal visit (and the debt increasing by the addition of an enforcement fee of £235).

absolutely sir, there were two notices the one dated 22/06/2017 has 05/07/2017 expiry date (at rear) and the one dated 30/06/2017 has 13/07/2017 expiry date. I will be calling their office first thing Monday morning 10/07, will make payment and close this matter.

I feel helpless though (and I think you too) that despite being at no fault, have been forced to pay almost £200 additional by enforcement agents. or maybe I did make a mistake and should have sought help before writing to court as clearly I did not write enough as one of the gentlemen suggested above.

thank you each one of you for your valuable suggestion and help. you guys are amazing. thank you again.

Oh my dear god!!!! you could not have been more right. Everything is Identical but the reference number and dates, they are of two different dates and I never knew the other one.. I am losing words for my stupidity really..

How do I go about filling out OOT for the second one please help and what to include on it.

Also, No I did not write council because when I got to know the other one It was with Northampton county court already and when I phoned them, they asked me to write to them and not to council. I did write to Northampton county council with my new address and they replied on my new address. Even though the council is in receipt of the letter but still writing on my previous address.

Oh my dear god!!!! you could not have been more right. Everything is Identical but the reference number and dates, they are of two different dates and I never knew the other one.. I am losing words for my stupidity really.

What you need to do now is to submit another Out of Time witness statement for the 2nd penalty charge notice and ensure that you provide more information. You need to ensure that state that you had not been able to submit the form sooner as you only became aware of the penalty a few days back. Explain how you became aware.

Firstly, can you will need to find out the date of the contravention. Please post back once you have done so.

the date of contravention is 28/11/2016 for the reference number which I did not write to the court as yet. I have soft copy of PE2 and PE3 on my email.

also in the meantime do you think I should contact Task and pay for the first one if they still accept on £278, even though it expired 05/07. But if I do make a payment via card, they will have my new address anyway or should I let them know that I am filling out OOT for the second one so please keep it on hold for another few days?

Date of contravention: 11/10/2016

Ref: EAXXXXX440

Out of time application refused by court on 22/4/2017

Task enforcement date notice issued: 22/06/2017

to be paid by: 05/07/2017 @18:30

(ii)

Date of Contravention: 28/11/2016

Ref: EAXXXXX355

Task enforcement notice issued: 30/06/2017

By: 13/07/2017 @18:30

no OOT application made for this PCN

 

Date of Contravention: 28/11/2016

Ref: EA XXXXX355

Task enforcement notice issued: 30/06/2017

By: 13/07/2017 @18:30

no OOT application made for this PCN

An Out of Time witness statement needs to be prepared for this particular penalty.

On the TE7 you need to ensure that you state that you are now aware that your vehicle had been involved in a road traffic contravention on 28th November 2016 and that all notices from London Borough of Ealing had been sent to your previous address but that you had not received any of these notices as you had moved from that address approx a week after the contravention.

You need to make sure that you state that approx 6 weeks after moving, you updated your address details for both your V5C and your driving licence.

The Out of Time witness statement needs to be sent to the Traffic Enforcement by 4pm on any weekday. Contrary to inaccurate information on internet sites, bailiff enforcement is not placed on hold at 4pm. It will be hold by early to mid morning the following day.

I have spoken with Task and they are saying I need to pay £556 and nothing less. I did not provide them with my new address and said I need to seek some assistance first and will call them back shortly.

I have filled up the both PE2 and PE3 forms, making an appointment with the court to have them attested and will send them out to TEC before 2 pm today. I have written the following please;

I am now aware that my vehicle Y7XXXXXX had been involved in a road traffic contravention on 28/11/2016 and that all notices from London Borough of Ealing had been sent to my previous address but that I had not received

any of these notices as I had moved from that address 02/12/2016. All my documents, including DVLA, car reg, bank accounts and insurance documents were updated in January 2017.

I request your office for the warrant of control held by the bailiff to be revoked, the court registration cancelled and for the local authority to 'rewind' the penalty charge notice back to the initial stage to allow me to either

pay at the earlier discounted rate or to appeal the ticket.

I have spoken with Task and they are saying I need to pay £556 and nothing less. I did not provide them with my new address and said I need to seek some assistance first and will call them back shortly.

They have clearly added the enforcement fee of £235 to the debt. This fee is only able to be charged at the time of any enforcement visit. I would suggest that you call Task and ask them to confirm the precise time and date of any visit recorded on their records. Please post back once you have spoken with them.

No, they have not added any fee as yet. I asked them for it as was told that it is for both of the penalty charges so they have added them together 278+278 = 556 with compliance fee only.

Are you happy with above explanation of OOT delay?, I have booked an appointment with county court at 1245 for witness to send these documents to TEC by 1330.

 

I have filled up the both PE2 and PE3 forms, making an appointment with the court to have them attested and will send them out to TEC before 2 pm today. I have written the following please;

 

I am now aware that my vehicle Y7XXXXXX had been involved in a road traffic contravention on 28/11/2016 and that all notices from London Borough of Ealing had been sent to my previous address but that I had not received

any of these notices as I had moved from that address 02/12/2016. All my documents, including DVLA, car reg, bank accounts and insurance documents were updated in January 2017.

 

I request your office for the warrant of control held by the bailiff to be revoked, the court registration cancelled and for the local authority to 'rewind' the penalty charge notice back to the initial stage to allow me to either pay at the earlier discounted rate or to appeal the ticket.

Unlike in the majority of cases that I receive on a daily basis, you have updated your address details in a very timely manner. Accordingly, in your Out of Time witness statement you need to emphasis that you have acted responsibly. Also, you have not outlined the reason why you had not submitted the witness statement any earlier. At the very least, you should be putting something along the following lines:

I was unable to to file this statement any sooner as I only became aware of this penalty charge notice on (enter date) when (explain how to came to know of the debt)"

You could then add something like this:

From enquiries that I have now made, it has revealed that my vehicle had been involved in a road traffic contravention on 28th November 2016 and that all notices from London Borough of Ealing had been sent to my previous address at xxxxx. Unfortunately, I did not receive any of the notices as I had moved from that address 4 days later (on 2nd December 2016).

In regards to my address details with DVLA, I would like to bring to the court's attention that I updated both my driving licence and V5C with DVLA approx 4 weeks after moving into my current address. As evidence, I am attaching a copy of my V5C.

Etc, etc.

Cancel my above post.

 

Phone them back and tell them that you are not obliged to settle the second account until 13 July and that you only wish to settle the other account at this stage.

I have spoken with them and made payment of £278, the first matter is closed and the second matter is on-going.