My Wife received a charge notice yesterday morning 10/06/17. It was in a brown undated envelope. The car park in question must have only recently been aquired by Smart Parking as it has been a free car park for years and my pensioner wife uses it for Doctor appointments and she always displays her blue badge and parks in disabled bays.

Long and short is she did not notice the new signs at the entrance, the camera or ticket meter which is in amongst the parking bays, and parked as usual in disabled bay. 3 hours free parking are allowed but reg number must be entered at the meter, but this is not displayed clearly on signs at disabled bays.

So any advice re what to do would be very welcome!

I have attached redacted pdf's and here are the details:

1 Date of the infringement 23/05/2017

2 Date on the NTK 08/06/2017

3 Date received 10/06/2017

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [N]

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? not yet

Have you had a response? '' ''

7 Who is the parking company? Smart Parking

8. Where exactly Ravensdale front car park Clacton On Sea

smart parking charge.pdf

smart parking charge 2.pdf

Smart are too late sending this NTK out to claim keeper liability

so anything else they claim they have to identify who the contract they claim to have is with as the driver at the time.

That means you

DO NOT IDENTIFY YOURSELF OR ANYONE ELSE AS THE DRIVER AT THE TIME.

Also the letter is not compliant with the POFA anyway for several reasons so double ya boo sucks to them.

I would ignore the letter and let them spend their money writing more begging letters

in the meantime take photographs of the car park entrance from the public highway,

the signage at the entrance and any other signage inside the car park including the wording on the ticket machine and disabled bays.

Also can you tell us who owns the car park as it isnt Smart?

Knowing what other businesses are there may help in that task

so identify the place and we can have a look at it on Google.

Post up your pictures and we will advise you what to say to them when the time comes

Thanks very much for the info!

I also thought the NTK might be late, but not sure I can prove this as no date stamp on envelope. We have not and do not intend to identify the driver! I have taken some photos but I will take some more and post up along with further details hopefully sometime tomorrow.

they had 12 days to generate it and another 2 days for service so it was too late before they even wrote it! should have been in the post by the 5th at the latest.

It would be interesting to see when they applied to the DVLA for the keeper details because if they were later than the 5th then they have broken the law by obtaining the keeper details.

Write to the DVLA and ask them who accessed your data, why and when.

They will probably tell you to ask on some form so do this,

it will allow you to make a formal complaint later

and if you are minded to give grounds for suing Smart for breach the DPA

Thanks Ericsbrother! I will certainly write to Dvla and it will be very interesting what info they supply! So the date of the NTK charge is out of time! not so smart then:-D. I will upload some photos of signs from the site as soon as I find my data cable. The nearest post code for the car park is CO15 4DE.

Here are some photos of the parking lot signs! I will upload a few more photos that I took today and would you believe it the meter had an out of order cover on it! lol

There were lots of people taking pics of the covered up meter when I was there today! I will write to the Dvla tomorrow! Watch this space!!

pics.pdf

need to see a piture of the entrance to the land from the public highway (as seen from drivers position) and any signage visible at the entrance. They are basically stuffed if they dont have clear, nice big signs where you enter the land.

All of what you ahve taken is good stuff to support a rebuttal of their demands

I also need a close up of the wording on the parking meter as this is the contract you have accepted if you feed the meter. Up to that poit you have not agreed to be bound by any conditions and are at worst, a trespasser and that is for the landowner to think about, not these bandits to throw their teddy out of the pram over.

Well done with the helpful piccies so far.

Dont be in a hurry to respond to the parking co, you will be writing at some point but let them waste their money on stamps first. No phone calls and no emails either, they will just harass you for free that way.

the main sign at car park entrance has been removed as has the other main sign just in front of the meter.

The meter still has an out of order cover on it!

I lifted the cover to try and get a close up photo but the mater was switched off.

I wonder whats going on?

what is going on?

simple, the machine doesnt accept the new pound coins

and they are too tight to pay for the conversion yet

so they would rather get £100 from a few fools who will pay it than no money at all because of the duff meter.

I hope you have pictures of the entrance and the lack of signs,

this is at least as damaging to the parking co as a bad sign.

Thanks for the help re uploading, and comments.

I have managed to get the photos uploaded, it was a format problem.

Photos 1, view from across the street where the entrance is but sign now removed,

2, entrance sign before removal 3, sign next to meter now removed.

The main sign as you drive in to the car park was not very big and was not positioned low enough to clearly attract drivers attention.

I will have to have another look at the meter to see if it did accept new £ coin!

I had a quick search on Tendring council web to see if any planning permision had been granted for the signs. I searched back 5 years and the only plans I could see for the area was for a change of use for the car wash directly opposit the car park and nothing for the car park itself.

pics2.pdf

the wording "parking regulations apply" is not an offer of a contract,

it is an invitation to treat at best and the actual words are rather meaningless.

this means that any offer of a contract via other signage is a take it or leave it rather than a compulsory thing.

Also the siting of the sign with no clear delineation of what is the public highway and private land

means it is as clear as mud as to what land the signs refer to,

the roadway or the small partch of tarmac in front of the buildings on the left?

You have got the kind of pictures that clarify your claim that there was no offer and acceptance of any contract and really stuffs their argument that there was a clear indication that you were entering private land coverd by a contract for parking there and what the terms were so you could think about it and either accept and park or reject and leave.

The removal of the sign and the covering of the meter makes me think that they have been ordered off the site and this can make parking co's rather vindictive because they no longer have to keep the landowner happy.

owever, Smart really are a misnomer so dont sweat if you receive further letters.

Thanks dx100uk, I have tried doing as you suggested. I have selected some of the older pics and some new ones and have attached in 1 pdf file, but not sure if this has worked. How do I remove the older attachments?

Thanks also Ericsbro, I returned today and got some close up pics of the meter. I lifted the out of order cover up, and as I did I knocked the red button and the meter came to life and then went off again after about 30 seconds which is shown in some of the pics.

So as you say no need to sweat about further letters. The 14 days were up yesterday so I expect something to show up in the post soon. I wonder how much it costs Smart installing the camera, signs & meter?

I hope the pdf attachment works! it should contain 12 pics but only 1 is showing?

pdf parking pics.pdf

excellent

I've done your others already for you.

dx

Great! Thanks dx

Great set of pics, if they took it further they're in for a pounding.

Those p&d machines are battery powered so when you press a button it wakes up.

You should try a non valid coin to see if it rejects but my bet is, like EB says, it's not programmed for the new £coin.

Tight wads, I work for a company with thousands of coin and note operated machines and they've all been converted/software updated. Including the new £10 note.

Why cover it up without disabling it?

I think EB is right zydeco! because they have removed signs and covered p&d machine, they may have been ordered off site Interesteing to know the p&d machines are battery powered.

I have found this interesting article in our local paper:

http://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/news/15357620.Irate_drivers_threatening_to_boycott_car_park_over_unfair_fines_might_be_owed_a_refund/

clearly any sign with an asterisk is not a contract but an invitation to treat. Smart are a misnomer and saying their signs are the BPA correct size is meaningless waffle. it has to ontain the rights words in a legible manner and must be there legally

I have just received a letter from DRP (Debt recovery plus ltd) regarding a parking charge for this car park. Apparently they have written to me, but I haven't received any notification of any parking charge up till this point. Incidentally, they wrote to my parents address, claiming that no response has been received from earlier correspondence.

I have just received a letter from DRP (Debt recovery plus ltd) regarding a parking charge for this car park. Apparently they have written to me, but I haven't received any notification of any parking charge up till this point. Incidentally, they wrote to my parents address, claiming that no response has been received from earlier correspondence.

Hello and welcome to CAG.

You need to start a new thread of your own please, this one is just for advising Crossword.

Best, HB

Hello Crossword. Do you have any clearer photos of the signs in the car park at all? My father is in a similar situation to your wife and I need as much evidence as I can get for the Popla appeal. Thank you in advance.

no point in doing that at popla kaz11

waste of time

start a new thread

of you own please

Hi all, here is an update.

This morning I received a letter from DRP demanding £160.

Do I continue to ignore?

I had a look at the car park on Monday, and now the sign at the front entrance has been replaced (looks the same as the original)

but the machine has been removed completely!

all the other signs remain as does the camera.

Maybe they are adapting the machine it to accept new £1 coins!

DR+ can be safely and totally ignore

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

they have no legal powers whatsoever whatever the supposed 'debt'

Thanks dx. I suppose DR will continue to send us threatening demanding letters, so do we at some point have make contact with Smart/Drp? or are they likely to just give up?

Hello Crossword. Do you have any clearer photos of the signs in the car park at all? My father is in a similar situation to your wife and I need as much evidence as I can get for the Popla appeal. Thank you in advance.

Kaz, all the signs are still there at the car park so maybe you can take some clearer photos yourself. I am not sure how shoppers are supposed to enter their car reg numbers because the machine had been removed when I was there. Good luck