Hi Guys ,

I went for lunch yesterday in Neath and parked in what I though was a legitimate parking pay ,

hindsight is a wonderful thing and it transpires I parked in a loading bay.

I received a PCN stating that I had parked in a loading bay during restricted hours.

I don't know why but as the sign stated that the loading bay was to the right and parking was to the left

I thought it meant the next parking bay up was the loading bay

and didn't realize that the parking bays available for around 5 cars was split in two.

After I inspected the road markings I realized my mistake

but the dividing line between the two bays was very feint and not visible to me from my drivers position.

I fully accept the mistake was mine for not being more observant when I parked

but was wondering if I had any chance of appealing as the painted line was feint.

I have included pictures so you can see what I mean.

Should I just cough up and put it down to my error or do I have a case to appeal.

Picture List.

1.Where I was parked

2. Parking Sign

3. Parking Boundary line

4. Parking Boundary line again

Where I was parked.pdf

I also just noticed that the time of Contravention was 14:19 and the ticket was issued 5 minutes later at 14:24

Definitely appeal it. Whether you will win I don't know, but it's worth a try.

Often council's will try to predict how this would be settled if it ended up with the adjudicator, and in my view, it's 50-50. There's no doubt the dividing line is in poor repair, and you could miss it. On the other hand, you are expected to understand the signs, and therefore to expect a dividing line to be there, and to look to see where it is. You can see the line if you look for it, so I would not like to say how it would pan out.

But appeal anyway - you've nothing to lose. Also send them the photo of the line to show how weak it is.

I don't get your point about the times. Looks like they gave you five mins observation, which is five mins more than they had to, assuming you were in a car, not a van. Even if you had a van, that's still a fair amount of time.

Thanks Jamberson

I don't why I mentioned the time ???

I will appeal then , is it acceptable to say exactly what I've said in my first post

Yes, your post 1 covers it in my view. How about re-wording it a little, something like:

I parked in what I though was a parking pay, but subsequently discovered that I have been parked in a loading bay, when I received a PCN.

The sign indicating the loading bay included an arrow pointing to the right. As I could not see any road markings separating the bay I was in, I assumed the sign referred to the next bay, further along the road.

After receiving the PCN I inspected the road where I was, and realized my mistake. The problem is the dividing line between the two bays is very feint and not at all visible without close inspection. I include a photograph so you can see the condition of the markings. I had no intention of flouting the regulations - this was a genuine error caused by the worn condition of the markings.

Please would you consider cancelling the PCN on this occasion ... (etc)

(The photo I would give them would be your last one, with the two feet at the top. They'll have their own photos, but that one shows the lines to be very poor.)

Thank you , Should I update the thread regardless of the outcome of the appeal?

Thank you , Should I update the thread regardless of the outcome of the appeal?

Absolutely, please. We like to know what happens, especially the people who have offered advice and you will help future caggers with the same problem.

HB

if you look up the government traffic signs descrriptions etc (cant find it as present), you will see a description of all of the road markings that go with this particualr on street parking.

the paint job fails to meet the minimum width BUT they may argue that the road has bene dug up and replaced so it was correct at the time of the order.

the other thing I note is that the plate (sign) is facing towards the loading bay so take a picture from the other side and show that it is difficult to read from the parking bays as it faces the wrong way.

Again, there are standards that must be met so you could show that they arent being met now regardless of what was done when it was laid out.

I'll have to get someone else to take the photo's for me as I'm miles from Neath.

I just looked on google maps and it seems the markings and signs have been the same since Aug 2016 ,

I have included these so you can see.

new photos.pdf

I don't think there would be any mileage in the sign being slightly tilted. You are expected to look for the sign and read it - that's the motorist's responsibility, and the sign is hardly hidden away.

The width of the lines could be a technical argument which wins. No harm at all in adding that one. I think it would be a good idea to include the older photo of them as well, to demonstrate they have not simply won away over the winter.

I have already made my appeal via Neath / Port Talbot Council website with the photo you suggested and I paraphrased what you suggested.

I just went to see if I could add to my appeal but it just appears to be making a new appeal and I can't just add to an existing appeal but I did notice that the Parking Officer has since added 8 photographs as evidence

BMW PIX.pdf

I received a letter from the Head Of Engineering & Transport thanking me for my communication , then reciting the law on Loading bays , then goes on to say that he/she is satisfied that the bay is clearly marked and signposted and it was my responsibility to adhere to the restrictions.

There is an option to appeal but if it is rejected I have to pay the full charge not the discount payment.

Ah well! , it was worth a try , thanks for the advice guys.

8 photos doesnt change the law on how wide a line of paint has to be. find the relevant regulations and quote them back to them and ask how their scrap of paint equals that.

The de-minimis rule might be invoked. It's a gamble from here. Not sure what I'd do.

Thanks for your answers guys ,

I had nothing to lose with the first appeal ,

with a formal appeal it could cost me an extra £35 if I lose

I can't afford that

I'm gonna have to concede and pay more attention next time when I park.

If I had more money I would fight it as a matter of principle

( even though it was my mistake )