Received a court claim for the following:

The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the defendant and HSBC dated on or around the Jul 22 2003 and assigned to the claimant on Jan 20 2015.

Claim amount £13, 060

This was a small overdraft, credit card and a loan.

At the time when I defaulted I had lost my job.

I offered to pay the loan at the time.

They rolled everything into one account and claimed for the whole amount.

At no time have I acknowledged the cc and overdraft due to charges, incorrect credit agreement and so on.

I started to pay towards the loan but they gave me account details which turned out to be the whole amount.

When I set up a payment, it was strickly on the basis it was for the loan only and disputed the one account.

I have since ceased payments as I had been misled by HSBA collections at the time.

I have not acknowledged the cc or overdraft for in excess of 7/ 8 years and have strictly said payments we for the loan account only.

I understood at the time they cannot role into one account loans and credit cards covered under the consumer credit act.

I will request a copy of the credit agreements and everything they have both to the solicitors and Arrow.

I will have to submit an embarressed defence.

I have almost cleared up my credit since 2009 and just got engaged.

I was going to try to get back onto the property ladder as I have always had trouble getting even rented with my former credit history.

I do not want anything to go on my credit recorded as I cannot afford at my age to wait another 6 years. I will be too old to pay for a mortgage.

My lady is currently selling her flat so we can buy together.

At the time I was diagnosed with depression, lost my long term relationship and the kids now live with their mother during the week. I will not have their everyone's future put at risk again.

Any advice would be great.

aha the old HSBC managed loan debacle

100's of threads here about them.

can yo fill this out please

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-2016**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

Name of the Claimant ? - Arrow Global

Date of issue – 15 may 2017

defence due by 4pm 16 june

What is the claim Particulars of Claim are stated as follows

1.The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the defendant and HSBC dated on or around a date in 2003 and assigned to the claimant in 2015.

Particulars a/c no – A NUMBER

2.DATE ITEM VALUE

a date in 2009 Default Balance A number above £13,000

Post reld Cr Nil

TOTAL A number above £13,000

What is the value of the claim? - A number above £13,000

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? – A claim for an overdraft but consisted of a credit card, loan and overdraft.

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? - before 2007 but loan after 2007

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - Arrow global

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

- cannot recall. Only recent letters from arrow global made me aware of this.

No corresponding letter was received from Arrow Global.

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? - 2009

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? - No.

Why did you cease payments? - The repayments became unaffordable.

What was the date of your last payment? – 2009 for the overdraft and credit card. Had set up with Dg solicitors a payment but only agreed loan no..... Never acknowledged the rolled in account. Tgey gave be bank details which turned out only to be the new account. Not the loan. Stopped paying this 3 years ago as they refused to send me a statement of the loan account.

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? – yes. The above.

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan ? - No

Have acknowleged the claim and sent cpr and credir agreement request but to date no acknowledgement.

thank you

there are numerous threads here already that you can read

please note your correct defence filling date noted above.

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=claimform+HSBC+OD&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=claimform%20HSBC%20OD&gsc.page=1

Hi. Just had a reply from Restons. Looking at the other forums, it is the standard letter which states you will have received a copy of the contract when you opened the account and there is no reason why you need an additional copy. They also state that the cpr 31.14 rules do not apply as the particulars of claim contains sufficient information.

Still have not heard from arrow global regarding my credit agreement request.

Have to file a defence is a few days so a bit stuck on what to respond.

then you've read other threads

100's of suitable OD defences already here.

have ago and we'll help

I have drafted a defence based on some others I have seen here.

Facts or the case (Do I need to include any of these?)

Credit card was put into dispute. Have not acknowledged debt or made payment since 2009.

Overdraft. Was put into dispute. Have not acknowledged debt or made payment since 2009.

Loan. Was taken out later. However, agreed to pay the loan only as a gesture of good will. In all my conversations and in writing, I only ever agreed to pay this loan account number. This was after they rolled into one account. They gave me account details to make payments. These were paid until I discovered a couple of years later that they were taking payments off the rolled account, not as what was agreed. I wrote to them saying these payments were for the loan account number …… only.

So they deceived me on this and payments stopped. Now the overdraft and credit card as far as I am concerned, no acknowledgement of this has been made. The loan for which I was sending money for was terminated by First Direct. That means payments being sent were for an account that does not exist, and were not meant for them to place into the rolled in account. All these are covered by different acts. Therefore if the account no longer exists, then they are holding money that should be refunded?

Any advice would be appreciated as I only have a couple of days to submit the defence.

Finally, how long can restons and arrow get away with these bulk claims and claiming without the documents and facts first. Should I draw the courts attention to this?

Rough Defence:

1. I received the claim [Claim number] from the Northampton County Court on 19th May 2017.

2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3. The claimant has failed to specify the nature of the account.

4. The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state exactly when the agreement was entered into.

6. The Defendant contends the alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years.

7. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Arrow Global Limited in 2016. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment. The claimant is put to strict proof a notice of assignment was served.

8. The claimant is put to strict proof they have the right under statute to bring the claim

9. It is denied that HSBC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

10. On the 23rd May 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Restons Solicitors Limited. I requested the Claimant provide copies of all applicable contracts, deeds and notices pertaining to the account.

11. Restons Solicitors Limited has not sent any of these documents to me and deny that they have to send these to me.

12. On the 23rd May 2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited pursuant to 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

13. The Claimant has failed to comply with S77(1) or s 78 (1) or s 70 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of S77(4) or s 78 (6) or s 79 Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

14. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

15. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

16. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

17. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Thread moved to Financial Legal Issues in view of the court claim..please continue to post here to your thread.

Regards

Andy

Need to file my defence by Friday. Can anyone check my last post to see if this is ok or if I have to add anything? Thanks!

Not the normal type of claim because of the amalgamation of accounts Roy so it will have to be a customised defence.The above is far too in depth for an initial defence..you normally go into detail and expand at witness statement stage...should it get that far.

The account number they quote in the particulars...which account does that belong to...if any ?

Andy

I think its the amalgamated accoutr.

Fine...leave it with me.

Have found some of my paperwork. Still need to find the rest.

The account number is the same as the bank account number.

I have only ever received a copy of the loan application, taken out later, and a copy of the bank account application which has a small section for the credit card application.

I also received this yesterday:

We thank you for your letter and acknowledge your request for documentation pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974.

We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statue.

This account arose under an overdraft faciliy.

Even if this account was regulated under the consomer credit act 1974, part V of the act does not apply to this facility and there will accordingly be no executed agreement.

In addition we confirm.

• The account is in drfault.

• The total sum outstanding is £above 13, 000

• The amounts which will become payable comprise interest and costs, depending on what enforcement action is taken against you

Please find your £1 fee

This was from arrow.

Need to draft my defence today, ready to send tomorrow.

Hi Roy.....

Its good news that the account number they rely on refers to the current account...can you confirm if this was an authorised overdraft facility and if so what was your agreed overdraft limit ?

Once I have this information I will be in a position to draft you a defence.

Regards

Andy

Agreed overdraft at the time was about £500.

Have checked my paperwork I have. I have letters sent to First Direct. I have some correspondence from first direct/ hsbc.

I cannot recall ever receiving default notices for the cc, loan and bank account.

I did receive a final demand letter with all three accounts saying I had seven days in which to pay in full. This was in May 2009.

Original Credit agreement request was 9th June 2009. Only ever had copies of application forms for loan and original bank account/ credit card.

See above first.

Have added a couple of things. Don't know if I should include the 9th june 2009 cc request outstanding or leave that for later?

1. I received the claim [Claim number] from the Northampton County Court on 19th May 2017.

2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3. The claimant has failed to specify the nature of the account.

4. The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state exactly when the agreement or agreements was entered into.

6. The Defendant contends the alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years.

7. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Arrow Global Limited in 2015. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment. The claimant is put to strict proof a notice of assignment was served.

8. The claimant is put to strict proof they have the right under statute to bring the claim

9. It is denied that HSBC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

10. On the 23rd May 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Restons Solicitors Limited. I requested the Claimant provide copies of all applicable contracts, deeds and notices pertaining to the account. They replied stating that they are not obligated to send this at this stage and have therefore failed to supply me with the relevant information in order for me to plead my case.

11. Restons Solicitors Limited has not sent any of these documents to me and deny that they have to send these to me.

12. On the 23rd May 2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited pursuant to 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

13. Arrow Global wrote on the 07th June stating that they are not the creditor as envisaged by the above statute, and therefore state that there is no executed agreement. They returned my £1 fee and have not acted on my legitimate request.

13. The Claimant has failed to comply with S77(1) or s 78 (1) or s 70 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of S77(4) or s 78 (6) or s 79 Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

14. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

15. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

16. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

17. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Great......well i wont be using most of what you have provided...far too in depth for an initial defence.

Will draft you defence later this evening.

Not suitable in this instance DX...as I posted earlier this has to be customised because of the 3 agreement amalgamation

yes sorry we cross posted...

Particulars of claim for reference only.

1.The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the defendant and HSBC dated on or around a date in 2003 and assigned to the claimant in 2015.

Particulars a/c no – A NUMBER

2.DATE ITEM VALUE

a date in 2009 Default Balance A number above £13,000

Post reld Cr Nil

TOTAL A number above £13,000

######Defence######

The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor HSBC. The claimants refer to an account number xxxxxxxxx which was my old current account number opened on or around 2003.My agreed authorised overdraft limit was £500 and the account was left in dispute with HSBC due to default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments.

The account became untenable due to extortionate fees and has not been acknowledged or serviced since 2009 and therefore any alleged balance is averred to be Statute Barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years.

I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

2.The Original Creditor has never served a Notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 to terminate the account or recall any alleged balance.

3.Notwithstanding the above, on receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

The claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:-.

(a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.

(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.

© Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

(e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

The above is all you need for now...if they insist that account number is correct and you can prove it was your current account number...let them try to prove/disclose the consolidated agreement and explain how an overdraft with an authorised credit limit of £500 can become £13,000.

Everything you have stated above will become useful should they wish to proceed to allocation and you have to submit a witness statement.

You only respond to their pleadings...never add anything or inform them of history.........let them go figure.

Andy

Thankyou.

As i stated, their was a final demand for the entire lot. The loan, cc and overdraft. I cannot recall receiving default notices for the cc or loan.

I had agreed to repay the loan and started sending payment. I have letters to back this up from me. However, they used the payments to offset the entire amount, not as what i agreed. I stopped paying. That was 4 years ago i think.

On all the letters, i stated i did not acknowledge the account or cc. Only the loan. Now by vitue of them never acknowleding the loan for over 6 years, does that make that staue barred?

In addition, what are the rules about regulated loans and cc into an overdraft whilst it is in dispute and no default notice issied at least prior to the accounts being terminated and rolled into one. Is that an unlawful termination?

Oh, and should i add on tge defense requesting the court to provide tge documents, else be strick out with the option to amend defence or just keep it simple.

No ...dont add anything further....slowly slowly catch a monkey...the defence is designed to open them up...if they claim as their pleadings that this was a " contract "...them let them produce it.

If they argue its not statute barred...we received payments..then they will have to expand again and eventually admit its 3 accounts rolled up.

Then it really starts to get messy with 3 sets of legislation and 3 sets of documents to produce.

Retain all the above for later...dont play your full hand just yet.....the more you say the more you inform them...because at this stage they have not got a clue exactly what the debt was.

Overdraft for £13K

Thanks for the help.

One last thing. Do I mention I made a request to Arrow Global regarding my credit agreements under s77-s79 which they returned with the £1?

Thanks for the help.

 

One last thing. Do I mention I made a request to Arrow Global regarding my credit agreements under s77-s79 which they returned with the £1?

No .......CCA requests are not applicable to overdrafts...again you are trying to feed them information on a debt they have no knowledge of.

Just stick to my proposed defence.

Hi.

Received this this morning from one of Restrons trainee solicitors. The points they raised are summarised however, have included the rest of the contents of the letterJust need advice on this:

We note you have filed a defence to the court proceedings against you.

By way of explanation, Arrow Global Limited is a debt purchaser. We would advise that this is a simple debt recovery action and the relevant facts are:

1) Refers to an overdraft facility.

2) Statements of account will have been sent to you on a monthly basis throughout the lifetime of the account including charges.

3) You failed to maintain your account within the terms and conditions and HSBC terminated the account.

4) The original creditor had a contractual right of assignment…

In light of above, we respectfully suggest you check your own personal records as the documentation you have requested has been previously been provided to you throughout the lifetime of your account.

Although you allege that the claim is statue barred, we note that you have provided no information/ evidence of when you believe the limitation period commenced, nor have you provided any details of when you believe you last made a payment towards the debt or when you last acknowledged your liability for the debt.

In any event, the information we have received from our client is that the last payment received towards your account was on (Feb 2013) which is within 6 years of these proceedings having been issued. In the circumstances, we entirely disagree with your assertion that the claim is statue barred.

You admit within your defence to having opened a current account with HSBC but allege that the agreed overdraft limit was £300. You have provided no evidence to prove such an allegation. You also allege that the outstanding balance is due to default penalties/ charges levies on the account. Please be advised that all charges applied to the account would have been applied with the terms and conditions you agreed to abide by.

You refer within your defence to your CPR 31.14 request, which was responded to by ourselves on 7th June 2017.

In view of the information set out in this letter, we do not believe your defence has any real prospect of success and we will therefore recommend to our client that an application to strike out the defence and to enter judgement against you for the full amount claimed, together with legal costs and fees. Should you wish to avoid these further costs being incurred then we invite you to withdraw your defence by enclosing the enclosed Form N9A and returned to this office within 14 days.

good andy's tactic worked a treat and they played their cards.

that's a std letter too mostly.

let them run

see if they want to brave disclosure

if you get an N180 from the COURT comeback here

till then enjoy yourself.

dx