New economic storm coming ?

Toby

Which might explain why Labour are currently leading in the polls. They did not win the election, but increase vote share and number of MP's.

I am pro markets and capitalism, but with proper regulation and the state playing a full part where it is sensible to do so. Brexit is actually part of putting Britain up for sale to the highest bidder. The EU needs reform, but it serves as a way of regulating markets and after Brexit a UK Government might struggle to regulate against powerfull global companies.

Originally Posted by unclebulgaria67

Toby
Which might explain why Labour are currently leading in the polls. They did not win the election, but increase vote share and number of MP's.

The only sane reason for that is May letting her social asset stripping policies out.

Corbyn is at least as Hard Brexit as May,
Is at least as untrustworthy
and has absolutely NO stated plan for dealing with Brexit, just like May

In fact, in reality the only differences between May and Corbyn seems to be that May promotes the interests of Businesses (whatever lies she might spin about for all), and Corbyn will promote the interests of refugees.

Neither has the interests of the British public at large in their hearts.
Neither has true democratic process in their hearts
Neither has honesty as their basis


QUOTE=unclebulgaria67;504 2774]
I am pro markets and capitalism, but with proper regulation and the state playing a full part where it is sensible to do so. Brexit is actually part of putting Britain up for sale to the highest bidder. The EU needs reform, but it serves as a way of regulating markets and after Brexit a UK Government might struggle to regulate against powerfull global companies.[/QUOTE]

and there's the other crunch.
Even if we do repeal the repeal and stay in the EU, that is not all honey and Roses either.

... But like Corbyn in Comparison to May in the recent election,
The EU is the least bad option available to us, and if we become a real part of it, we Brits still have it in us to change the world.

They've had 40 odd years to change the world I think people got a bit tired.

Originally Posted by determindator

They've had 40 odd years to change the world I think people got a bit tired.

But Europe has done really well over the 40 years.

Just think of the state it was in before say 1980. The Berlin wall came down in 1989, reunification of Germany, massive changes to countries that were previously under control of Soviet Union. Look at Poland, Slovakia, Romania, etc and look at how they have progressed.

The EU is still one of the best consumer markets in the world and inspires most of the world in many regards e.g luxury cars, fashion, high tech IT and engineering.

I think people have been brainwashed by newspapers to think the EU is mostly negative, when actually when you look at everything, there is a really positive story to tell.

People voted Brexit mainly due to immigration, but that has been a net gain economically for the UK.

Mr C tried negotiations on important issues and was not successful. How long do you go on being ignored whilst you're sending money back into the EU. It's funny how we can afford sending money when we have a 1.7 trill deficit. Funny type of economics.

Because the UK earns a shed load of money from being in the EU single market. City of London from memory performs over 50% of all Euro currency trading.

UK's net contribution to the EU is about £10 billion. UK benefits from EU membership a lot more than £10 billion.

You wait to see what Brexit deal is negotiated and it will include an ongoing annual contribution to the EU of billions for single market and tariff free customs area access. And the UK will probably have to pay a divorce bill to the EU as well of tens of billions. Not many people will be happy.

As time goes by Brexit will be seen as a farce and the country will turn against it.

Well if you can't convince the people in a big campaign to stay in the EU by just saying we get more from the EU than they do from us, it's a worry.

You should've run the campaign UB

Originally Posted by determindator

Mr C tried negotiations on important issues and was not successful.

Camerons negotiations to extend the UK financiers protection from EU regulations was entirely successful.

Shame he didn't try at all for some of the things that mattered to the British Joe Public.


Unc has (yet again) enlightened you regarding the financial realities.

Originally Posted by determindator

Well if you can't convince the people in a big campaign to stay in the EU by just saying we get more from the EU than they do from us, it's a worry.

You should've run the campaign UB

People believe leaving the EU means controlled migration. They will be disappointed.

Originally Posted by unclebulgaria67

People believe leaving the EU means controlled migration. They will be disappointed.

Some people even believed there would be countries by the score flocking to beg us to trade with them on terms that benefited the UK

Yet it seems those countries are all too busy banging on the EU's door ..
.. and of course we would have got those EU deals with those countries automatically

From what I've read about EU negotiations, G20 and so on, we're looking increasingly isolated and small.

Originally Posted by tobyjugg2

Unc has (yet again) enlightened you regarding the financial realities.

There is the right to reply you know, sorry if it's a bind

BTW you have to recognise banter

Originally Posted by tobyjugg2

Shame he didn't try at all for some of the things that mattered to the British Joe Public.

Quite.

One of the other reasons people voted against.

Originally Posted by determindator

Quite.

One of the other reasons people voted against.

There are so many issues which are being called reasons that people voted to leave the eu, but most of them seem to me that they should be laid directly at the feet of our own politicians, NOT at the feet of the EU.

Occams Razor carves a pointer straight at the atrocious and negligent remain campaign which allowed deception, misdirection and outright lies by Gove, Johnson et al to go unchallenged
- as being the major cause from which and on which all others were built.

It requires by far the least assumptions.


That ALL this was done to quiet a relatively small part of the Tory party beggars belief.





That those now proven liars remain in office is a growing stain on our nation and its standing in the world.

That our PM wanted all the 'negotiations' in secret a until it was too late to challenge those manipulations of our nation, and the her intent to use antiquated 'Royal Perogative' which has not been used by the actual monarchy for an age to bypass all scrutiny is a further stain.

What worth is their word in negotiations ?
What trust and good will do they deserve ?
- Zero

Banks are already starting to plan for EU/Euro related business to be done away from London.

http://news.sky.com/story/wall-stree...-unit-10952031

I don't think people quite realise the impact of City of London losing current business to other finance centres. By being in the EU, London is used as a major hub for EU/Euro finances. The tax income that UK treasury obtains from this business is likely to be sizeable. And it is the knock on effect, that once Banks and investors see Frankfurt or Paris as the places to carry out their transactions, London will lose more business.

Netherlands and UK are biggest channels for corporate tax avoidance

"First came the Panama Papers, then the BahamasLeaks. Journalists continue to shed light on and raise a public outcry over the offshore financial centres that corporations use to reduce their tax bill – something that is still being challenged in court.
A new study has now uncovered all the world’s corporate tax havens and, for the first time, revealed the intermediary countries that companies use to funnel their money into these places."


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-tax-avoidance

http://theconversation.com/these-fiv...x-havens-79555

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...est-tax-havens

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-06322-9



Interesting how this all ties in to Brexit (doesn't everything) and as I commented some time ago in the Brexit threads and is stated in the guardians report:
“In the context of Brexit, where you have the UK threatening, unless they get a deal, to change their model to be attractive to companies who want to protect themselves from taxes, well, they are already doing it."

It adds
“The Netherlands says they won’t let the UK be an offshore tax haven. That’s because they don’t want them taking their business.”

Brexit is all about money, but not the loose change most people have. The very wealthy who support Brexit and funded the leave campaign, have plans to turn the UK into a global tax haven hub. Corporate tax rate will be reduced and regulatory rules will be relaxed.

Unless ordinary people share some of this additional created wealth, then i could see people being worse off than current. There was a documentary on tax havens which revealed that most people did not gain anything from Banks and investment companies being based there. Government had reduced taxes to help the finance sector and increased VAT making the cost of living very expensive. Pensioners with fixed incomes found it very difficult to afford basic living standards.

EU starts tightening the screws on 'questionable UK finance practices they wont be able to veto

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bri...-idUKKBN1AC0KB

But now EU regulators have issued guidance on how they plan to scrutinise "delegation" - a manager in one country overseeing assets in another - after Britain leaves the bloc in 2019.
The guidance is aimed at preventing investment firms setting up "empty shell" subsidiaries in an EU country.

"Asset managers in London oversee funds worth 1.2 trillion euros ($1.4 trillion) in the EU - more than their peers in France, Germany and Italy combined, according to figures from UK industry body the Investment Association."

Unsecured UK consumer credit tops £200bn for first time since 2008

https://www.theguardian.com/business...MCNEWEML6619I2

Data from the Bank of England showed unsecured debt grew by 10% in the year to June, to almost £201bn.
The last time outstanding debt was above £200bn was December 2008.




While China's debt driven spending and buying spree frightens even the Chinese Government

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-chi...-idUKKBN1AH3OC

"stringent regulatory scrutiny of overseas deals, after Chinese companies spent a record $221 billion on assets overseas in 2016, will not only cool new dealmaking but also impede the closing of some of the pending transactions, according to three bankers in Hong Kong involved in mergers and acquisition"

"Beijing is increasingly scrutinising opaque corporate structures, excess debt and deals it sees as risky as it tries to control capital outflows and keep the economy stable."

Originally Posted by tobyjugg2

Unsecured UK consumer credit tops £200bn for first time since 2008

https://www.theguardian.com/business...MCNEWEML6619I2

Data from the Bank of England showed unsecured debt grew by 10% in the year to June, to almost £201bn.
The last time outstanding debt was above £200bn was December 2008.




While China's debt driven spending and buying spree frightens even the Chinese Government

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-chi...-idUKKBN1AH3OC

"stringent regulatory scrutiny of overseas deals, after Chinese companies spent a record $221 billion on assets overseas in 2016, will not only cool new dealmaking but also impede the closing of some of the pending transactions, according to three bankers in Hong Kong involved in mergers and acquisition"

"Beijing is increasingly scrutinising opaque corporate structures, excess debt and deals it sees as risky as it tries to control capital outflows and keep the economy stable."

and for those who missed it


https://www.theguardian.com/business...b06059b8ca7a61

Rating agency Moody’s has sounded the alarm over Britain’s consumer credit market. It has downgraded the outlook on bonds backed by credit card customers, buy-to-let mortgages and car loans, and warned that some British borrowers will struggle to repay their debt as the economy weakens, and inflation eats into their salaries.

Moody’s has downgraded the collateral outlooks on most ‘UK structured finance sectors’ to negative.

'Structured finance' is the process of taking a large number of individual loans, packaging them into a single security, and selling it to investors. In theory, this allows investors to get a guaranteed income stream, but with the danger of losses if the underlying loans underperform (as happened spectacularly in the subprime crisis of 2008).