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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
    • Yep, I read that and thought about trying to find out what the consideration and grace period is at Riverside but not sure I can. I know they say "You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is"  but I doubt they would disclose it to the public, maybe I should have asked in my CPR 31.14 letter? Yes, I think I can get rid of 5 minutes. I am also going to include a point about BPA CoP: 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place. I think that is Deception .... They giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!
    • Six months of conflict have also taken a heavy economic toll.View the full article
    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Envisage Promotions ...debt advice please


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Hi,

 

I hope this is in the right section.

I was looking to hire two butlers for an event

 

 

phoned around and got a quote of £184 for two hours which I thought was okay.

The company emailed me the quote and told me to fill out a booking form which I did and then they would send me an invoice.

 

 

I got the invoice a few hours later and realised they meant £184 each so with vat the bill was over £400.

I emailed back and said sorry thats way too much please cancel.

 

Received an email this morning saying I cannot cancel without paying £100 plus vat for the considerable amount of time they have invested(?). If I dont pay in two days it will go up to £184 plus vat.

 

I have not signed an agreement and there are no terms and conditions on their website

(they did send me them after I filled in the booking form online).

 

Any advice please?

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they are talking utter cobblers unless you booked them for the same day.

 

A verbal agreement is a contract but you are protected by consumer contract law that allows you to cancel distance contracts giving 14 days notice.

 

 

so was your event within the next fortnight?

Booking form is not a contract, it is an "intitation to treat".

 

Imagine you went into a clothes shop and asked for a pair of trousers for about £100.

The assistant got a pair of nice chinos down from the shelf

you tried them on

said that you liked them, how much?

 

 

he said £200

you reminded him of your budget

his answer is

"well you tried them on and said you liked them so that is a contract to purchase"

you would think him mad and rightly so.

the same applies here.

 

 

The contract only forms when there is a "meeting of minds" as the judges quote often gets relayed in the textbooks

 

Ultimately this is a frustrated contract,

they cannot supply the people at £184 for the 2 people so you are not obliged to pay for something different.

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Thanks for the quick reply,

I thought it was not a contract but its always better to get someone with more knowledges advice.

 

 

The event is in 18 days and as soon as I realised the error I let them know.

 

 

Maybe I misheard the guy but I genuinely thought it was a total of £184 plus vat and not double that or I would not have filled in the form.

 

I will let the guy know about the initiation to treat and see if that stops him in his tracks.

 

Thanks again.

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Just had this reply:

Regretfully you appear to have misunderstood that completing a booking form is entering a contract.

 

Please see attached our agreed terms and conditions, I have also highlighted the relevant section below for your convenience.

 

6. Cancellation

6.1 Without prejudice to any other right or remedy available to it the company shall be entitled to cancel the contract or suspend

any further performance under the contract without any liability on the part of the company or the talent.

6.2 The client shall not be entitled to cancel the contract without the prior written agreement of the company.

 

I am trying to help reduce your costs, and would maintain my offer of a reduced fee if you decide to cancel.

 

If you decide to not respond as detailed in your previous email this will be handed across to our debt recovery team, at which point the full amount will be charged and you will be liable to pay additional fees implimteded by STA Debt Recovery.

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It's not entering into a contract. And they're threading you with a scary? Hahaha. Pathetic. They also can't add anything else on because there wasn't a contract and theres no terms.ans conditions to allow it.

 

Dsr overruled whatever they think they can do. Perhaps politely tell them to read it in full. Your statutory rights cannot be overruled.

 

Just like you can order bt or sky and cancel without penalty in the first couple weeks.

 

Can you name.the company please.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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When did you get the T's & C's in relation to returning the booking form?

 

Did the booking form include the price at "£184 x 2"?

 

Were you running the event as a business or a consumer? This will affect if the DSR's apply.

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When did you get the T's & C's in relation to returning the booking form?

 

Did the booking form include the price at "£184 x 2"?

 

Were you running the event as a business or a consumer? This will affect if the DSR's apply.

 

When I spoke on the phone I told them what I needed and the guy said £184 plus vat and gave me a quote reference which he also emailed me. The email had no prices but did have a t&c attachment and said to fill in the booking form online so they could raise an invoice. They then sent the invoice and I realised the price difference and told them by email that I wanted to cancel as we must have got our wires crossed regarding prices.

 

There were no prices on the booking form - it wanted to know dates, times locations etc and the nature of the event.

 

All communication was through my personal email account but I completed the booking form with my husbands business details as it was for his event.

2017 Envisage Group Terms & Conditions.pdf

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their terms arent legal and cant be applied retrospectively even if they were.

Now, no more phone calls, no emails. You communicate by letter post only and put your email setting to bounce his messages back. The threat of using a dca tells me that he knows that there is a problem with his agreements and to futher that he makes it clear that he is acting as a middleman so cant actually speak for the others with any authority.

Ignore anything other than a court form from now on

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No more than an Invitation to Treat, certainly no contract.

We could do with some help from you.

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