I hope someone can offer some advice regarding a huge problem myself and my family are having regarding a nuisance who is constantly removing and covering up things on my sisters grave.

To cut a very long story short,

my sister used to be in a relationship a long long time ago with a man

who during the time they were together was very violent and abusive towards her,

resulting in various injunctions and arrests.

When their daughter was 12 (she's now 30) my sis finally managed to end it once and for all and started to move forward with her life.

Over the years that followed he reared his ugly head every now and then making various threats towards my sis and their daughter but nothing came of it and he was just ignored.

Sadly after fighting breast cancer for 7 years she lost her battle and died last August.

Shortly before she died she was really concerned that once she'd gone he would start causing trouble for her daughter and husband (she had been in a very happy relationship for 9 years) and asked me to do all I could to prevent this happening.

Not long after she was buried my niece and brother-in-law started receiving vile threatening message from him and tributes left by family and friends on her grave were being moved and hidden.

The police were contacted last November and details taken regarding the messages but nothing was done, my niece was just advised to block him (there are reasons she's reluctant to do this which is another story.....)

The messages have continued and over the past month have got worse as has the messing with the grave.

He's hiding the tributes her husband's left,

usually thrown behind the headstone

and as there's a picture of my sis on the stone in her wedding dress,

he's moving the vase my mums bought with a tribute to her daughter on it, in front of the pic on the stone to hide it.

Today I went up there and he'd removed my vase and placed it in someone else's grave!!

We spoke to the police yesterday regarding all of this and the officer said that even though the messages are vile and unacceptable it doesn't amount to enough as an arrestable offence,

but he is going to go with a colleague to have a word with him and tell him to stop or he will be nicked.

He also advised to get a civil injection regarding the threats but was uncertain if anything could be put in place regarding him moving stuff on the grave.

This is my question (at last!)

is it possible to obtain an injunction preventing someone from touching items placed on a grave even though he's not damaging it?

I've spoken to my local council who own the cemetery and as the plot isn't owned outright it's not classed as trespass but could be perceived as anti social behaviour.

Is this correct and if so is this enough to get an injunction?

Thanks for any help

Lisa

interesting. it is council land, yet you have the plot?

what is the law re cemeteries, is it entirely public.

anti social may well be a way forward. an injunction might not work re if its deemed public. not sure

interesting. it is council land, yet you have the plot?

what is the law re cemeteries, is it entirely public.

anti social may well be a way forward. an injunction might not work re if its deemed public. not sure

Perhaps the owner of the cemetery can do something about this ! Byelaws that apply or other law specific to cemetries.

found this, see para 2.32 re offences

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/326370/burial-ground-managers.pdf

That link doesn't work for me, Ford.

HB

broken link

it seems to be an old link

is this still current re

section 18 re offences

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1977/204/contents/made

You can have them arrested if you can prove it. It happened at the cemetary at the top of the hill near me when a local lad desecrated a memorial to a popular man

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/man-banned-hawarden-graveyard-five-8617802

Bit of an extreme example but it shows the law is there.

it seems to be an old link

is this still current re

section 18 re offences

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1977/204/contents/made

If this is still deemed to be law then he is definitely committing an offence under rule D - wilfully interfere with any grave or vault, any tombstone or other memorial, or any flowers or plants on any such matter.

I will speak to the police again referring to this and see what they say as I think they just can't be asked to get involved!

If police dont do anything, go speak to the chief superintendent at your local main station. If hes reluctant to help, then time to get MP involved.

But try and get proof if you can.

If police dont do anything, go speak to the chief superintendent at your local main station. If hes reluctant to help, then time to get MP involved.

 

But try and get proof if you can.

They have very good cctv up the cemetery so it won't be difficult proving what he's doing. I will speak with the police again tomorrow and point this legislation out to them and see what they say.

Thanks for your advice

Dont speak to the front desk guys, if its a local station. Theyre usually volunteers and not full officers. You need to speak to a sergeant or higher

Are they a Member of 'Federation of Burial and Cremation Authorities'? http://www.fbca.org.uk/what-we-do

Burial Grounds: Guidance for Managers: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/burial-grounds-guidance-for-managers

The Local Authorities' Cemeteries Order 1977: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1977/204/contents/made

Local Authorities Cemeteries (Amendment) Order 1986: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1986/oct/08/local-authorities-cemeteries-amendment

Report a stalker: https://www.gov.uk/report-stalker

Are they a Member of 'Federation of Burial and Cremation Authorities'? http://www.fbca.org.uk/what-we-do

 

Burial Grounds: Guidance for Managers: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/burial-grounds-guidance-for-managers

 

The Local Authorities' Cemeteries Order 1977: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1977/204/contents/made

 

Local Authorities Cemeteries (Amendment) Order 1986: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1986/oct/08/local-authorities-cemeteries-amendment

 

Report a stalker: https://www.gov.uk/report-stalker

Thank you for this it makes very interesting reading, especially the document Burial grounds: Guidance for Managers as it clearly states that local authority cemetery's have to be aware of the law and follow the Local Authorities’ Cemeteries Order 1977.

What's now really pee'd ne off is that I've spoken to my local authority three times in regard to this matter and each time I've been fobbed off that there's nothing they can do, but it clearly sates in the order that rule 18 d "No person shall wilfully interfere with any grave or vault, any tombstone or other memorial, or any flowers or plants on any such matter"

After reading this I'm now of the understanding that the local authority have to take some kind of action? I really need to know exactly what rights we have before I call them back tomorrow demanding something needs to be done.

Youll find that many authorities simply dont care. Thats why you need to keep pushing, get your MP involved, also the local newspapers etc.

the document Burial grounds: Guidance for Managers

thanks stu007. that was the doc i linked (broken link) in #4.

note also 19 in the order re penalties; poss summary conviction/fine

Thanks for all the advice it's all really helpful.

I've come to the conclusion I'm going to email my local authority and include relevant documents regarding the law in relation to the local authority cemetery order and also the guide for burial ground managers and point out it is their duty to progress my complaint and take whatever relevant action, otherwise I will escalate as appropriate..

Just out of interest do you know if its them or me who would get the police involved?

Thanks

 

I will speak to the police again referring to this and see what they say as I think they just can't be asked to get involved!

did you speak to them?

as it potentially involves an 'offence' re a penalty of a conviction (ie criminal) then they shld be obliged to make enquiries at least...

Could the actions constitute an act intended to cause distress?

Would these (as they are repeated) then be harassment?

Harassment can be both a tort (civil wrong) and a criminal offence.

If prosecuted (so as a criminal offence) the OP wouldn't have to fund it, and the offender may get an ASBO (so the OP also wouldn't have to pay for an injunction).

did you speak to them?

as it potentially involves an 'offence' re a penalty of a conviction (ie criminal) then they shld be obliged to make enquiries at least...

did you speak to them?

as it potentially involves an 'offence' re a penalty of a conviction (ie criminal) then they shld be obliged to make enquiries at least...

The police came to see my niece regarding the vile and threatening messages last Saturday and we spoke to them regarding the nuisance he's causing at the grave and was told that they didn't think there was much they could do about it! They are going to "have a word" with him tomorrow (Tuesday) and warn him off of making any more contact with my niece or he'll be arrested and they'll also try and warn him off about the grave, but again said if he continues to interfere with it we'll have to seek a civil injunction as there's nothing they can do unless he damages it, (I wish I knew then what I know now!)

I find it so annoying and also worrying that these authorities that are supposed to be there to protect and help the public either just can't be asked and fob you off at the first opportunity or are so uninformed regarding various rules and laws they fail to do their duty correctly!

If it wasn't for this brilliant forum and the wealth of knowledge about literally everything you need to know helping people like me, so much more injustice would take place

Sorry to hear about this.

It sounds to me like this person's conduct constitutes harassment, which is a criminal offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

It sounds like the police are taking action, so hopefully that stops it.

It is perfectly possible to seek an injunction against this person in circumstances such as this. I suppose the injunction might restrain him from contacting specified individuals; or from going within a 20m radius of the grave. Although I am unclear why he has not been blocked if he is sending abusive text messages - the judge would want to know the answer to that question.