Got caught in Sainsbury's for goods that amounted to around £5, was made to return the goods (in completely resalable condition) and was banned from stores and thought that would be it. However, now received a letter from DWF stating that I need to pay £150 for security costs however this was not disclosed at the time. I panicked and showed them my real ID with my mum's address as opposed to a student one/credit card, but they completely butchered my surname which is different from my mum's anyway if that helps?

Just looking for some advice as I've read up on the forums saying to ignore the letters and that DWF have no real power in this, and was wondering if anyone had gone through this process from start to finish where DWF had given up?

Read the threads on here. They are all the same. They cant touch you.

Is it worth engaging at all? My mum wants me to call them but i don't want them to think that they're getting through and therefore apply more heat on the situation.

Nope. Dont engage in letter tennis. Certainly never phone them. How old are you

Ok understood, I'm 21. This is also a first time offence.

Hi and welcome to CAG

Do not be put off by the fact DWF are solicitors. They can do nothing without Sainsbury's permission and it is highly unlikely they will bother as they cannot claim the £150 that DWF state you owe.

I assume you received the letter at your home address and if so, does your mum open them for you? If your mum doesn't know about this, I feel it would help if you could tell her as once you do, you can direct her to CAG and see what rights DWF (and the others) have. NONE!

This £150 they are claiming has no basis in law but due to it being unregulated activity (stolen from the yanks) there is no body to complain to. Sainsbury's got the goods back so no loss there. Security staff are paid irrespective of whether they apprehend anyone or not. This cost is factored into the stores business costs and are part of running the store. Yes they could claim a small amount in admin costs but not the £150 they are claiming.

If sainsbury's decided that they will take action, this must be via the county court system. This is not a criminal court but a civil court. Under UK law, they are unable to claim costs that they have not incurred and as such the £150 would likely be thrown out. Even if they did win the case, the cost of taking the case to court would outweigh what return they would get hence they don't bother. It's just not worth their time.

Ignore if you can or write to them and give them your student address-then ignore.

It was sent to my home address and my mum does open my mail for me. She's ultimately calm about it but was telling me to call and settle/pay it. I'll direct her to it and hopefully she'll agree

Well show this thread to your mum.

On CAG we do not approve of shoplifting. Never have, never will however we also do not like companies chasing fictitious amounts made up on the fly.

While this post I made relates to Retail Loss Prevention, the same principles apply

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448994-RLP-FAQ-s.-What-do-they-mean-Reviewed-September-2015&p=4762870&viewfull=1#post4762870

Since 2012 no known court cases have been reported since a retailer got badly slapped for chasing a charge against two teenagers. This case is linked below

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356933-Oxford-Retail-Loss-Prevention-A-Retailer-**-reveiwed-September-2015-**&p=3898857&viewfull=1#post3898857

While you did wrong and the shock has put you off doing it again, these companies prey on the ignorance of the average person but unfortunately, not everyone who gets this 'charge' check out the net for more info and pay up blindly. The more cases we see and the more the information gets out there, the sooner these companies profits drop and they either stop that part of the business or (in RLPs case) go out of business.

Ok thanks for the clarity.

What is the protocol on their side - do they send a few more letters to chase up but eventually leave it?

Ok thanks for the clarity.

 

What is the protocol on their side - do they send a few more letters to chase up but eventually leave it?

YUP!

Each letter from DWF will give the impression that they 'Will' take action but if you read them properly, they say nothing of the sort.

Expect quite a few letters and quite possibly letters from debt collectors who have even less power than DWF (who have none) you can safely ignore them too. It won't go away in the short term but if you treat the letters as a game rather than a serious issue, the stress may ease.

What I would like is a copy of the letter. If you can scan it, erase ALL personal details including reference numbers and barcodes (if any) then upload them to CAG as a pdf file, that would help us enormously.

I don't want to set up a port of communication but wondering how easy it is to change the address so that my mum doesn't have to deal with the letters.

The letter is below, thank you

Doc2.pdf

Doc3.pdf

Thanks for those pdf's

The only way to stop them writing to your home address is to give them a new one. This means either sending a letter or ringing them. I would only ring them if you can record the call because they will say things on the phone that they would never dare put in a letter.

If you choose to write to them, I would head the letter with, "I acknowledge no sum demanded by you nor any company you claim to represent."

I have seen that letter before and you notice that they don't state what 'further action' the are considering. Lots of bluff and bluster

Thank you for all this help.

Do I need to give reasoning in the letter for an address change or can I literally be lead with that opening line, request an address change and sign off? Perhaps it is better just to leave it as that would begin a channel of communication, even the letter suggests that I acknowledge what is happening.

No need to give a reason at all. Just state that you require all further communications to be sent to the address you wish.

As your mum is aware of this, so long as she knows the score about not paying I can't see a reason to change the address.

found elsewhere , used this a few times, if someone can confirm it's still relevant, send them this, should stop them bothering you

Dear (signatory)

Thank you for your letter of xxx.

It appears you are non-compliant with civil procedure, in that you have failed to state a discernible case against me and you have failed to show me the documents on which you intend to rely. That is to say, your letter discloses no evidence and no case. Your letter also is not a Letter of Claim.

Until and unless you comply with civil procedure by providing a heading "Letter of Claim" AND disclose all the evidence on which you intend to rely AND disclose your legal case, as is required by civil procedure, I am not only unable to respond but quite unable to understand why you are making these demands.

Further, you make unlawful threats against me which as already explained fall outside of legal protection. I reserve my position as to whether I will pursue you, and/or your "client" (assuming it is true you act for them), in the criminal and civil jurisdictions.

Yours

xxxx

Oh this looks useful thank you, I wonder if it is inflammatory though?

Oh this looks useful thank you, I wonder if it is inflammatory though?

No, because they have not complied with civil procedure simple as that, if they want to make a claim against you they need to do it lawfully, which of course they won't do because they would not be able to prove the loss.

I wouldn't be sending that

I wouldn't be sending that

Interested, why not?

The DWF letter really isnt worth the price of a stamp.

Ignore is still the best advice.

If you bother to look up the case law on this you will see that about the only thing that cant be claimed for is security costs.

These clowns know it and anyway, Sainsburys dont see a penny of the money , it is all trousered by DWF or RLP or whichever other masked avenger crawls out of the woodwork.

You are an adult, start taking some responsibility for your life and that includes giving people the right address to send letters to and not your mums so if you do want to plat letter tennis with themuse your current address and make sure that you tell them to note it for all correspondence.

As for the suggestion about telling them off for failing to follow Civil Procedure Regs, they dont pretend that it is a lba, just an invoice.

they may be solicitors but they are acting as an debt collector at best and that assumes that any such debt exists (it doesnt) this means that the letters is as far as it will go

Because there's no reason to. Ignoring them is the best option and doesn't invite them to play letter tennis.

Because there's no reason to. Ignoring them is the best option and doesn't invite them to play letter tennis.

Depends of your state of mind, ignoring them for the hardliner is an easy play, but the letter churning and phone calls for some people unnerves them, such as one person i helped, she couldn't deal with the constant fear of them calling her and threatening letters, this despite me constantly reassuring her that they were full of 5hit.

Surely if you essentially tell them that you know what the law is you then have more chance that they will leave you alone and move on to someone else less clued up

Incidentally this girl was 16, they were never going to take out a claim in court because as you know they have to be 18 to make a civil claim against them, im sure making false claims of court action is illegal

I just spoke to the Citizens Advice Bureau saying that I should perhaps email them saying that i dispute the debt and should put it on hold while i seek advice. However it's that time on a Friday where everything is closed and Monday is the 'ultimatum'

I'm wondering if there are any active members on this forum who have gone through this themselves from start to finish?

yes hundreds

YOU DO NOTHING OF THE SORT!!

ignore totally!!

dx

I just spoke to the Citizens Advice Bureau saying that I should perhaps email them saying that i dispute the debt and should put it on hold while i seek advice. However it's that time on a Friday where everything is closed and Monday is the 'ultimatum'

 

I'm wondering if there are any active members on this forum who have gone through this themselves from start to finish?

I understand your worry, but you have to understand that they have about as much legal power as your postman, what do you honestly think they are going to do to you? if they did ( and they won't ) followed through with the threats of court action and you receive a claim through the court in Northampton ONLY then do you have to to do something about it.

Until then your options are:

1) pay, and they will go away.

2) Ignore and if you can handle the idle threat letters and calls then eventually they will move on to someone else who is weak and willing to pay.

3) Send them the letter i suggested, that will let them know you are clued up on the issue and your not going to pay whatever, a good % call they will not bother you anymore, not a 100% but a good chance.

Just remember they will make all sorts of claims of what they may do, and as most of said on here that is nothing.