Hi,

I have received a county court claim form from BW Legal on behalf of Excel parking.

Details are;

Principle debt £100

Interest £21.32

Court fees £25

Solicitors costs £104

Total £250.32

This is for parking at cavendish retail park in keighley on 10/04/2014

I intend to fight this all the way.

I have signed up on MCOL and sent an acknowledgement of service so I now have approximately 20 days to get my defence together.

I am also about to sent the CPR 316 request to BW Legal. Can this be done via Email?

Is there anything else I should be doing in the meantime?

I'm going to spend this week searching the forums for what to include in my defence but any advice would be more than welcome.

There were 2 drivers named on the car at the time and the number plate had been changed a few months earlier to a private plate so there is a chance the old reg could have been entered by mistake. (Details are a bit hazy as the incident was 3 years ago)

Would excel have a record of all the registrations entered from that long ago on their machines to prove one way or another???

I look forward to hearing from you guys in the know!

Regards Kaffee

please fill this out so we have the correct info to enable the correct advice

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

dx

no email to BWL.

they wont accept it and even if they did they would only use your email address to harass you so you dont want to be doing it anyway.

This is made clear on a large number of other posts, you must read them as you cant do this in isolation.

I also note tha BWL are ramping up their costs in these matters, it must be hurting the parking co's to lose the defended claims so make more money out of the ones where people dont bother.

so read a good number of posts,

acknowledge the claim and come back here for wording of a CPR 31.14 request and a simple skeleton defence.

If you get the CPR off quick enough you may well have time to put their non-compliance with it in your defence to show that they havent shown a cause for action and ask for the claim to be struck out for that reason.

Get reading and write yoru CPR out here based on the template ones

you seem to have cut and pasted a bit of a questionnaire rather than give us any information that is helpful.

The wording of their claim is important a

s generally it isnt good enough

so you can complain to court about them not using the proper procedures AGAIN and you may get the claim dismissed purely because they are too lazy to do their paperwork properly

( rare but it happens- you quote the claim numbers and court details in your letter to court)

Also, it is a CPR 31.14 request for documents that you send,

get the heading wrong and they will rightly ignore you.

They are lawyers so they get paid by someone else to be nasty to you, dont give them the ammunition

Name of the Claimant ? Excel parking services

Date of issue – 13th march

Date to submit defence = 14th April

What is the claim for –

1.The claimant's claim is for the sum of £100 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant in respect of a parking charge notice (pcn) issued on 10/04/2014 (issue date) at 14;16;28 at cavendish retail park keighley. The pcn relates to under registration ******

2.The terms of the PCN allowed the defendant 28 days from the issue date to pay the PCN but the defendant failed to do so, despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

3.The claim also includes Statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 10/04/2014 to 10/03/2017 being an amount of £21.32.

The claimant also claims £54.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN terms and conditions.

What is the value of the claim? £250.32

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company

or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? BW legal

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes

parking charge, not breach of contract.

That menas the signage must make it clear that it is a contractual charge to pay them £100

unless you are a good boy and we will let you off rather than you can park here

but if you are a naughty boy you must pay us £100.

We will need to see the signage to see if they have even got this anywhere near right.

They use a standard format for their claims, a cut and paste job so it will always be vague.

That is worth challenging as well once you have a definitive on what the signs offer.

Lastly, what paperwork do you have regarding the event?

Did you get a ticket slapped on the car or was it a letter though the post as the first contact?

Hi

It was a letter through the post as first contact.

I'll take a picture of the signage as soon as I can and post it up.

Thanks

Is it possible to send the CPR 31.14 request via Cagmail at the moment as it doesn't seem to be working?

good ,

the more info you can gather the better it is,

dont leave out anything

so take pictures of the entrance to the car park from the public highway,

pictures of the signs at the entrance,

pictures of any signs in the car park that are different to the first sign,

pictures of the ticket machine and any signs attached to it.

Note the size and height above ground of the signs

and also the size of the characters on the signs.

You have to bear in mind that people are suppsed to read these whist driving their car.

Also, note any lampposts or other lighting

- if you cant see them in the dark then they dont exist as contract offers in the dark.

Hopefully I've attached some photos for you to look at

Kaffee

the ticket machine offers the contract and conditions are you pay the money and then agree to a contract that isnt offered at the time of payment.

This means that any charge for breach of contract is defective as the matter is a distance contract.

There are case precedents on this, you need to look them up, the Parking Pranksters blogspot would be a good place to start

The other way of reading this is that the contract you accepted by paying didnt mention the conditions they are now claiming so they arent part of the contract.

All amounts to the same thing but just from a slightly different direction.

the other signs are too small to read as thumbnails,

which means that apart from we cant comment on the detail

they are probably too small to create a clear offer of a contract for you to accept as you are supposed to read the core terms as you go past in your car rather than stop, get out read it, phone your solicitor for advice on the meaning of it all and then decide if you want to feed the meter or not..

Next question is have you done the CPR 31.14 request yet?

If not add to the request copy of the CCTV images showing the payment machine at the time and also all of the data regarding registration numbers of vehicles entered that day

(as you belive that the wong reg no for the vehicle could have been entered and this would then show up on their list as having purchased a ticket with that reg but no ANPR images).

you should let them know the details of why later,

hence the brackets around the why.

Let us see if they have kept the data first.

After all, the plate may be different but it is the same vehicle!

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

don't sign anything

.

dx

to the solicitors

[Your address]

.

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. the contract between [parking company name] and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

3.copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] & [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request within 14 days and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

You are reminded that as this case is yet to be allocated to a track, CPR31:14 does apply, a refusal to comply because you 'think' at this stage you dont have too will be used against you in any filed defence.

.

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT

dx

Hi

Thanks for this - I'll check out the blogspot.

I have already sent the CPR 31.14 request

but will write to ask for the data of all registrations entered on that day anyway.

I doubt I will get a reply.

Are they likely to have this info??

One other question is

- If I lose in court how much extra am I likely to pay on top of the £250?

nothing more.

note the correct date for filing defence please

14th April

thanks

they will have the info but as it totally destroys their claim they arent going to want to give it to you in a hurry.

Your defence bundle will of course go into that and they will be in trouble because they have to prove their claim rather than you prove your denial.

It will be awkward for them to say that black is white without some concrete evidence.

It is something they dont like to have revealed as ultimately it leaves them open to questioning as to how reliable their system is overall and that may mean that ANPR is barred from being evidential for a claim.

Hi

Thanks for this - I'll check out the blogspot.

I have already sent the CPR 31.14 request but will write to ask for the data of all registrations entered on that day anyway. I doubt I will get a reply.

Are they likely to have this info??

One other question is- If I lose in court how much extra am I likely to pay on top of the £250?

Also, they have added unclaimable costs to make the money up to £250.

If you challenge this you will only have to pay the £100 plus the filing costs and maybe £50 but the supposed contractual agreement additions of £54 is cobblers,

you didnt enter into the contract and the POFA doesnt give them the right to make up a distance contract and have it enforceable where keeper liability exists.

The reason they do it is because the lawyers do all the running on this and not the parking co so they need to earn a dishonest crust from the ned result or they lose money on the whole deal.

Read about Champerty and Maintenance and you will see that the whole exercise sails close to the wind

Will do thanks

Hi Guys

I've written and requested a copy of the CCTV images showing the payment machine at the time and also all of the data regarding registration numbers of vehicles entered that day.

Kaffee

God, you wont get it but again it will make them look obstructive and that will ease the balance of probability scales in your favour

Quick question

On the MCOL site it's state 122 lines for my defence

What does that equate to in words approximately?

Kaffee

why?

you are only filing two lines!

as said, your defence at this point only needs to be bullet points so something like

"there was no breach of contract so no cause for action by the plaintiff against the defendant"

WHEN you get to knowing a hearing date for the allocated court then you have to exchange and submit your evidence bundle,

This will contain all of you pictures, letters, copies of other judgements and case law etc.

All of that will support this simple one line defence but none of it is needed until tehn.

If you submit it know you will give BW 6 months to prepare their claim to fit around what you have said rather then being a true statement of events from their client.

ok thanks. I thought I had to submit it all in the next few weeks. That gives me ages to prepare then.

yes, just the short single line pointing out what your defence will be. They will probably drop the claim when they see you have entered a defence as they know that they arent going to win so will cut and run to save money.

Is there any reason for delaying my initial defence until closer to the dead line? If not I'll send it tomorrow

Cheers

Kaffee

i wouldn't blink early no