The company I work for is a global company employing thousands.

Yesterday HR emailed us to say that it is a legal requirement to have a copy of out passports.

Can they legally demand this?

Personally I haven't got one and I was born here and am 38 years old.

Can they demand them from the people that have them?

Surely a national insurance number and paying tax proves this?

No, and no. No they can't demand you get a passport. But have a NINO and paying tax isn't good enough. Employers are required to have sight of documents that prove your identity and right to work in the UK. A passport is the easiest form of proof, but there are others. Explain to HR and they will tell you what will do instead. And they should have sight of the original documents too, not just copies of them. The copies they should make and put on file as evidence they have done so. Plus, naughty them, they should have done this a long time ago!

Hello and welcome to CAG.

The forum regulars will tell you more about this, but we've seen this before. Are they checking on people's right to work in the UK or something like that?

And have you asked HR what they will accept in place of a passport?

HB

Oops, sorry about the crossed post with Sangie.

Here's a link to a thread from the middle of last year.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465225-Passport-required-again-or-can-t-work&highlight=employer+passport

HB

In the absence of a Passport, other documents will suffice - normally a Full Birth Certificate plus proof of your NI number, such as your NI Card

Sounds like the employer may have been challenged over the immigration status of an employee and now need to prove that they conduct the necessary due diligence checks

it looks like birth certificate will be the relevant document.

Anything else doesnt prove that you are entitled to live and work in the UK, even NI number as that could have been issued to a temporary worker.

Having said that, sometimes even a birth cert doent prove you are a UK national as you may not be if your parents werent.

There is another problem, it is unlawful to copy a UK passport so they would need SIGHT of it and make a note of the number.

However, as the govt doesnt use joined up thinking it still tells companies and local govet agencies to break the law by copying them.

Many moons ago I used to have the same propblem with my Class 1 Safety Certificate ( explosives licence) there are 2 different conditions, acquiring explosives and acquiring and keeping.

however, you dont need one for keeping so when it expired they tried to say I was in unlawful possesion of explosives when there is no such crime if you acquired them legally.

The problem in both of these cases is the assumption thaat theere is only one method of doing things when there isnt.

it is unlawful to copy a UK passport

Are you sure? https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/information-management/reproduction-british-passport.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

Yes it is but even government advice tells companies and individuals to do this. I am not concerned with pasports from other countries, they have their own laws but to copy a UK passport in Britain is a breach of Crown Copyright so the penalties are not huge but nevertheless exist as it is unlawful.

I agree that it is not lawfully be reproduced (read copy a passport) but you are missing the next bit of the sentence, namely: "without the prior permission", since for the purpose that is being discussed within this thread is confirming the right to work permission to copy has been granted by the government here: https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

In fact the passport office themselves advise passport holders to photocopy the passport, thus again permission has been granted to photocopy.

UK citizens have to show Birth cert and evidence of NI number Other documents not needed or not valid. So, to confuse matters even more if the OP showed his passport then that is not proof of the right to work in the UK for a UK citizen.

See what I mean about the govt giving bad or incorrect advice. This would mean that the copying of ther passport was done without permission as the reason given isnt valid! Their "factsheets" start off with the wrong assumptions and so people are forced to follow the wrong path..

Yes it is but even government advice tells companies and individuals to do this. I am not concerned with pasports from other countries, they have their own laws but to copy a UK passport in Britain is a breach of Crown Copyright so the penalties are not huge but nevertheless exist as it is unlawful.

I think you may be wrong on this. Every financial institution in the country prefers a copy of the passport as ID, as does every solicitor when having to prove the same. I certify copies on a regular basis and have never come across any issues. The one thing that is recommended is that copies are black and white.

UK citizens have to show Birth cert and evidence of NI number Other documents not needed or not valid. So, to confuse matters even more if the OP showed his passport then that is not proof of the right to work in the UK for a UK citizen.

See what I mean about the govt giving bad or incorrect advice. This would mean that the copying of ther passport was done without permission as the reason given isnt valid! Their "factsheets" start off with the wrong assumptions and so people are forced to follow the wrong path..

How are you figuring that out? UK citizens have the right to work in the UK, therefore possession of a UK passport would confirm citizenship and therefore the right to work. Passports of foreign nationals entitled to work in the UK will be endorsed with that right on their own passports.

There are plenty of things that the government does wrong. This is not one of them. The regulations underpinning the relevant law stipulate what evidence is required and how employers are too evidence this. So the regulations give "permission" because they constitute lawful instructions of the government. The list of acceptable documents is set out in regulations and a passport is one.

The guidance for employers explaining what they can accept and that they must copy original documents is here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5604096

The list of acceptable documents is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/378926/employers_right_to_work_checklist_november_2014.pdf

It isn't limited to just Passport or BC+NI, there are lots of other combinations but those 2 are the easiest and most popular for UK citizens.

CrappoMan's link isn't working for me, don't know if was this on but the list of documents if you don't have a passport (but do have unlimited right to work in the UK) - known as List A - is here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/571001/Employer_s_guide_to_right_to_work_checks.pdf#page=26

So, to confuse matters even more if the OP showed his passport then that is not proof of the right to work in the UK for a UK citizen.

Not true. If you hold "A passport showing the holder ... is a British citizen or a citizen of the UK and Colonies having the right of abode in the UK" (to quote List A) it means you have the right to work in the UK.

Sorry, the link changed after posting for some reason. The last 3 letters should be 'pdf' in lowercase.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/378926/employers_right_to_work_checklist_november_2014.pdf

This is the form I use at work.

That's weird, it's happened to my link too.

Something in the CAG setup is doing.

It's .pdf when I am writing my post but the moment I post it CAG chnges it to display as .PDF and link won't work unless .pdf is in lower case.

Yep, the last link I re-posted shows as lowercase, but the link behind it is uppercase, and most webservers are case-sensitive.

Try this link to avoid any further PDF/pdf issues - https://tinyurl.com/pkonvbb

everyone keeps quoting the wrong source of information. If you look at the legislation a UK birth certificate and UK passport are not themselves an absolute proof of right of residence or nationality according to the British Nationality Act 1981.

That is why I say that the govt websites give confusing and incorrect information but expect everyone to act on that duff gen.

same goes for proof of ID when opening a bank account. the banks are more scared of the regulator than they are of breaching other laws so they do things they arent lawfully entitled to do.

I cant pay my council tax without proving residence but they wont accept the council tax bill they sent me as proof of address or ID when paying it in person.

I also seem to have dragged this topic away from the original request for help and hopefully the OP has a birth cert and proof of NI via a tax form or the like.

A birth certificate is not proof of identity, even if it yours.

Anyone can legally obtain (buy from the register of births) another person's birth certificate if they know the name of person, place of birth and the date of birth (give or take a year either side) all details shown on a birth certificate.

This opens another can of worms; if you show your birth certificate to HR, what is to stop someone in HR (a temp' for instance) from using your details to obtain a duplicate birth certificate?

If they obtain it to commit an offence than that is an offence in itself. the same would apply to using copies of any other document or even using the information on them for purposes other than that they were supplied for. A company got fined for that recently