Hi Guys

I know there have been many threads about Total Parking Solutions but they seem to be about over staying or ticket machines not working. Mine is a bit different.

My son took his 8 1/2 month pregnant wife to hospital and parked his large Ford Ranger in the car park.

He hadn't realised until he went back that he had parked 6" outside of the designated box.

A TPS employee issued a Parking Charge Notice 8 minutes after he arrived.

There were plenty of spaces in the car park anyway

- this seems a bit of a money earning ploy.

I have seem previous advice about ignoring it

- would this be the same here?

Obviously, with a little one on the way he has enough stress to cope with and I am trying to help to reduce that by contacting you.

Thanks in anticipation

you most certainly do not ignore it...

please fill this out:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

1 The date of infringement? 14/02/2017

2 Have you yet to appeal to the parking company? [Y/N?] Y

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it - No

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

5 Who is the parking company? Total Parking Solutions

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?Pilgrim Hospital, Boston, Lincolnshire

Thanks for the fast response

If there was a ticket on the windscreen, then do NOTHING until the NTK appears. meanwhile have a good read of similar threads, and go get some photos of the signage.

OK thanks

If there was a ticket on the windscreen, then do NOTHING until the NTK appears. meanwhile have a good read of similar threads, and go get some photos of the signage.

Does waiting for the NTK affect the "offer" of a reduction to £30 from £60 if appeal fails?

If you arent intending to pay then it doesnt make any difference. If you intend to pay then dont bother appealing as the initail appeals to the operator are not independently scrutinised and generaly fail because the operator is only interested in money, not facts.

We know that most of the private parking charges are unenforceable so advise people on what to do to either get them cancelled or challenge the claim at POLA or court. We dont make decisions for you, it is your choice whetehr you think it is worth challenging the charge or just paying up and ending the matter. However, ther are 2 posters on here at the moment who paid up and still get harassed for the money,

parking co's are not properly regulated so there is no-one to complain to when they get things wrong. The trade associations are barely worth bothering with, the IPC are not honest brokers and beyond a joke. The BPA threaten sanctions but still support member operators who have been sanctioned alsewhere and others who have faced criminal prosecution dont even get a slap on the wrist.

So waht you do is up to you, we can advise on the correctness of any ticket you get, tell you f the nTK that you will receive creates a keeper liability ( the reason we say wait for it, they cant claim if they get it wrong) read the signage and offer comment on its enforceability, tell you how to challenge contracts and planning matters etc

Definitely don't intend to pay - really appreciate your response. Will wait for NTK!

Hi

Well the NTK has arrived and the photographic evidence shows that the parking was more than the original 6" outside the box!

I've attached both sides of the NTK along with photos of the signage at the car park.

Once you have arrived at the ticket machine to obtain your exit ticket (pay before exit) you are already past both signs with the higher one being difficult to read anyway.

There was no sign in the area where parked or on the walking route out of the car park.

Your advice as to possible ways to appeal would be gratefully received.

Regards

Sign1.pdf

Sign2.pdf

I ve had to take down the NTK

you need to remove the QRCODE box.

sadly one of the pictures went too!

well,

the main sign doesnt refer to other conditions so can be taken to be the contract.

the other sign may have more detail but falls foul of the Consumer contracts Regulations for distance contracts As the car park is P&D then what is written on the payment machine is the decider as that is what you accept by putting your money in.

If it is different to the wording on the other signs and doesnt mention anything that you are being clobbered for tough luck on the parking co. sight of the ticket machine and any sign attached needed please.

Hi

Thanks for quick response. I

Its not a Pay and Display. Ticket is dispensed on entry then you have to pay at a pay station to authenticate the ticket to allow you to leave via the exit barrier.

Will change the NTK

Many thanks

Have blocked out QR box

Thanks

Both Signs.pdf

NTK Front.pdf

NTK Back.pdf

The Parking system at the Pilgrim is about the only thing that DOES work.. most patients are shipped off to either Kings Lynn or Nottingham.

Does that mean that if you don't pay until you leave anything on the ticket machine is of no consequence?

your photograph of the entrance with both signs is absolutely perfect.

How are you supposed to read the one on the left whislt driving through and the ticket machine covered up. I love it.

Breach of contract? what contract, you wont be able to see the sign on the left from the driver's seat let alone read it whilst driving, it contradicts the main sign and the covered over machine mans that any applicable terms are suspended as they werent offered at the time.

So what to do

- well you appeal in writing NEVER email.

You say that there was no breach of contract because the signage at the entrance doesnt contain enough information to form a contract as it didnt offer anything to consider and there is no mention on that sign that TPS were offering anything or had any involvement with the parking.

Likewise the machine dispensing tickets had no contractual conditions that indicated or created a contract between the driver and TPS so no contract exists. This needless to say means there can be no breach of contract and no cause for you to demand monies from anyone.

Send a copy of this to the NHS trustees and tell them that as there is not cause for TPS to obtain your keeper details they are jointly liable for a breach of the DPA as they are your servants and you may sue them for the same using VCS v Philip, Liverpool CC dec 2016 as the precedent. The trust may wish to save themselves some money and a lot of embarassment by telling TPS to cease their baseless claim against you forthwith.

Now you need to find out the name of the chair of the NHS trust for the hospital. Dont go into any detail about why your vehicle was parked there, it is irelevant and will only muddy the water, this is not about parking, it is about a company making spurious claims for money and they are encouraging it and engaged in it.

EB, it looks from that photo that there are two ticket machines, one of which is covered up, but the other available for use. Otherwise how would the driver be able to take a ticket which is the mechanism for raising the barrier. I've seen quite a few car parks that have duplicate machines like this, but don't know why.

Would agree that the signage is utterly incapable of being read from the driver's seat, so cannot form a contract. As you are not required to pay until returning to the car park, there can surely be no requirement to read any other signs that are (e.g.) associated with the pay machine!

Imagine the bedlam that would be caused if every driver pulled up to the barrier, saw the (very high) sign to the left, decided to get out and read it in its entirety, only to decide that they didn't wish to be bound by the Ts & Cs, and then need to reverse out onto the road to go somewhere else!!

Brilliant guys

Will start to draft appeal and let you know what response I get from all bodies concerned.

Post your draft up here so the guys can make sure you dont slip up

the point about a the covered machine and all of the signs is that they are confusing, cannot be read on the move and some of them not applicable or relevant as far as permission to park goes.

I agree with the potential for bedlam, hence the need for the parking co to use the brain cell they possess to make it blindingly obvious what it on offer at that immediate time.

I have said it often enough,

1 sign with a clear enough message about entering into a contract will do.

Barrier car parks are better in many respects because you have to stop and consider.

Unfortunately many hospital car parks that use them have a broken payment machine in the hospital foyer where you are supposed to pay after the event and no-one on site will take responsibility because that eats into the profits of the company running it and the hosptal administrator who gave them the contract will never get a new carpet for their office.

I keep mentioning a new carpet because the person who employed APCOA at a site where I worked got one so that must be the going rate for signing up these bandits.

One day they may read these threads and then my identity will be leaked all over the social media and people will say "that Baron XXXX is not the nice person he seems when he sits in the house of Lords". Only kidding, us hereditary peers dont get to go there any more

Raise a complaint with the PALs (Patient Advise and Liaison) Office for the NHS Trust that runs that hospital, complain direvtly by email to the CEO, hi/her name will be on their website, you can usually guess their email address as firstname.surname@whatever the contact email address is. Contact your local paper and complain that it is a money making con.

Hi Guys

I've drafted an appeals letter to TPS - should I mention the word"appeal" in the letter or does this legitimize the original PCN?

I've also done the same for the Trust.

Any comments would be appreciated and I won't be offended!

Trust Letter.pdf

Appeal letter Anon.pdf

Hi Guys

I've drafted an appeals letter to TPS - should I mention the word"appeal" in the letter or does this legitimize the original PCN?

I've also done the same for the Trust.

Any comments would be appreciated and I won't be offended!

Personally, I'd remove the pictures. Why waste your ink.

Also, in the paragraph under the pictures...

The machine dispensing tickets also had no contractual conditions that indicated or created a contract between myself (the driver) and TPS, so no contract exists......

This would identify you (the keeper) as the driver at the time. Don't give them an easy ride! I would change that to...

The machine dispensing tickets also had no contractual conditions that indicated or created a contract between the driver and TPS, so no contract exists......

Thanks - that makes sense. I thought the pictures would prove the point but as someone has already said they will reject the appeal regardless!!

The point about mentioning the machines is that they cannot create contractual conditions.

You dont say that you were interested in being bound by them,

you do not even say you were there as a passenger, let alone driver.

This is all about showing a lack of contract,

not about parking or hospitals or anything that personalises it.

You are making a general complaint to the hospital so you can leave in the pictures of the big sign and machine in your cpoy to them (there are more flaws in the signage that helps you later but I wouldnt waste your time on that detail now)

they know what you are on about and then cant say,

you must read the back of a fag packet signs near the bins or whatever

as they wont be responding without consulting the bandit who got a new carpet for employing them

and they will be blowing smoke to get the problem away from their door as quick as possible.

If the Trustees do respond the tell us what they say as generally they tell lies like

" we need the parking money to pay for vital medicines"

when that is absolutely untrue,

parking money CANNOT be spent like that.