Thanks ericsbrother.

are you confirming what DragonFly1967 is saying

- take out the pictures to TPS and depersonalise the ticket machine comment but leave the pictures in for the NHS Trustees?

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit dim but I just need to be clear and not waste all of your efforts by getting it wrong.

Thanks

yes

Congratulations guys your prediction was totally correct

- after "careful consideration" TPS has rejected the appeal.

I'll attach the letter,

some of which does not make sense

- that's the bit about the discounted amount,

full amount and the dates but what did we really expect.

I assume the next step is to go to POPLA.

No response, as yet, from NHS Trustees!!

TPS Response.pdf

Attachment Unapp - Remove all personal details and refs plz

Sorry just realised what I've left in - thanks

Will upload again tomorrow

From their reply, it does sound slightly odd that the "discounted" amount of £60, is exactly the same as the "full" amount. That's some discount!

As the BPA code of practice says that they MUST offer you 40% discount for prompt payment (not that you're going to pay anyway), this means that the 'discounted' payment should in fact be £36 and not the £60 that they're demanding. And as you now have that in black & white directly from the horses mouth (regardless as to what it may or may not say on any of their signs) they won't really have a leg to stand on if they try to take it any further and try and charge you more.

In fact, having just re-read your post that included images of the signage, that states that it will be reduced to £30.

They need to make their minds up

Interesting times ahead

Think I've now got rid of any identifying info Thanks Dragonfly1967 So do I still go to the next stage with POPLA and if so do I change the evidence?

TPS Response.pdf

no, you havent had the matter dealt with by the hospital, which should ahve been done before you contacted TPS.

They are the masters but what will happen now is the parkinmg co will tell them that the matter has been reconsidered and surpise surprise, the outcome is still the same.

Homer and I gave you the same advice but you sem to have ignored it.

Still not too late to try againas ultimately the signage does not a contract make so even if the hospital wash their hands of the matter.

Hi ericsbrother I have not intentionally ignored any advice from you which I have really appreciated.

I tried to follow the advice on post #16 where there was no mention of holding off on the TPS appeal until getting a response from NHS Trust.

I'm confused now as to my next step Apologies if I have offended anyone

well, why do you think you are writing to the NHS trust? they have the power to tell the parking co what to do on their land but by writing to the parking co first you have basically screwd the chances of this happening because when they contact the parking co they will respond and say that you have appeal to them and the matter has been dealt with.

If you had read any of the dozens of hospital parking threads you would have understood this from the outset even if you didnt understand it from the wording of the advice in your own thread.

However, I would still write to the boss of theTrust and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are employing a bunch of rogues who are ripping people off with their duplicitous signage and behaviour and that you will be making this fact more widely known.

Pardon my ignorance, but do hospitals have newsletters for staff?

I would have thought that a letter to one would get a response from other unhappy people, the parking companies could be trying to divide and rule.

HB

Hi Guys

The Chief Executive of the NHS Trust has responded and as ericsbrother suggested they have washed their hands of everything.

I guess the next step is an appeal to POPLA. I'm not sure how to appeal now.

EB mentioned that there were non-compliance issues with the signs and having read through the BPA Guidelines, and not being in anyway conversant with distance contracts, have only seen a mention of them not being allowed to mention PCN's on signage but I may have mis-interpreted that one.

Any further help would be appreciated as POPLA deadline is in 14 days.

Thanks for all your help so far

NHS Reply.pdf

Time to get in touch with your local newspaper and tell them what's going on, a visit from them to the NHS Trust Media Communications Department will usually kickstart an investigation. Also send in some FOI requests asking for sight of the contract which permits the PPC to charge for breach of contract.

Thanks Homer67 FOI request on its way tomorrow along with contact with local press and social media

tut tut they even call it a penalty charge

That's a good 'spot' renegadeimp - hadn't noticed that one!

Should I ask the NHS Trust for the number of PCN's issued at Pilgrim Hospital so far this year as well as for sight of their contract with TPS in my FOI request?

I'd say that's one question you need to ask, you can also ask total revenue from parking charges and from parking charge notices and how many cases have been referred for court action.

https://www.ulh.nhs.uk/hospitals/pilgrim-hospital-boston/parking/

Please note: No member of the public receiving treatment or visiting patients in the hospital need pay more than £4.00 per day for car parking.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/28/hospitals-in-england-net-more-money-than-ever-from-car-park-charges

About 120 NHS trusts across England were asked to give figures on parking charges and fines under the Freedom of Information Act, with 89 providing responses.

 

Overall, the study found that NHS trusts netted £120,662,650 in 2015/16 in car park charges, up from £114,873,867 the year before.

 

About 27 trusts provided data on parking fines, showing they made just over £2.3m in fines over a four-year period. In 2015/16 alone, £635,387 was made from fining patients, visitors and staff on hospital grounds.

 

 

 

Katherine Murphy, the chief executive of the Patients Association, said it was unfair that hospital parking in Wales and Scotland was largely free, but that patients in England were still forced to pay.

 

She added: “The shocking reality about car parking charges is that they are taking money from the sick and vulnerable to top up NHS coffers. This is not what car parking charges should be used for.

 

The reason staff and patients have to pay to park is usually because the NHS Trust is on a PFI site. Therefore it is the PFI Company that is profiting from parking charges and private parking invoices not the NHS.

you might get the former but you will never get the details of the contract as that will be "commercially sensitive" information.

In short, someone made a few bob from the deal.

All of the "fines" will go to the parking co because the law on VAT and corporation tax will kill the NHS Trust's status if they got the money directly.

It was high time that the government took this particular thorny issue to hand and either put an end to how parking is currently controlled or made it transparent and gave the hospitals the legal powers to manage it in a similar way to local councils.

Either of these choices have no place for third party income generation at the expense of the unfortunate (patients)

I'd say that's one question you need to ask, you can also ask total revenue from parking charges and from parking charge notices and how many cases have been referred for court action.

Morning Guys

Have made FOI request as advised. POPLA appeal deadline is in 8 days - any ideas for a different approach to that of the appeal to TPS?

Signage was mentioned as a possibility in earlier posts but I'm no expert on what it should say to confrom. I do know that the entrance sign is too high up to read and there were no other obvious ones where parked. Thanks in anticipation.

you wont get the FOI back intime.

Your appeal should be that there was no breach of contract because you werent offered one that allows the parking co to claim a penny (send copy of the sign at entrance that shows the tariff but no other detail- sign 1 on this thread).

Also, the parking co failed to allow the 10 mins grace period to let the driver purchase a ticket etc so a breach of the BPA CoP.

You can say anything else you wish but these 2 points should be made because they will damage the parking co's chances of taking the matter further even if POPLA dont uphold your appeal.

Thanks ericsbrother

Hi

Quick question - do you suggest a POPLA appeal by post again like the appeal to TPS rather than using their online method?

Thanks

POPLA is fine to do online. However, the last time I used it, the online form was quite limited. Submit any further evidence via email with any relevant reference numbers and attachments like photos etc that you're relying on as part of your POPLA appeal