Bought a car:

- made in 2010

- 89,000 miles

- Ad said: "car is mechanically excellent"

- Paid GBP 2900 with debit card

- Trade seller

After 200 miles, car broke down (engine noisy, smoking and not going anywhere).

Seller said I was driving the car with a problem, hence it's my fault.

Called citizen's advice, got deferred to consumer helpline. They called today, saying:

1. The burden of proof is on ME

2. I need to take the car back and get an independent export report

3. I need to prove it is a "manufacturer's defect"

All these 3 are totally contrary to what I have found via google. What in the name of Elvis is a "manufacturer's defect"? this is a 7 year old car!

What to do?

Bought car: 20 Jan 2017

Car broke down: 27 Jan 2017

Dealer picked up car for inspection: 2 Feb 2017

After a week the burden of proof is with the seller without doubt.

You are still in time to reject the car and get a full refund under cra.

Write an official letter to them and send it recorded delivery rejecting the car.

If you have paid by card and they refuse to refund do a chargeback /section 75.

Some questions to assess the problem better:

How long did you drive the car for after it started smoking?

What car is it, how many miles, what's the service history and who's the dealer?

From what I see on google: yes, the burden of proof is on the trader. However, don't I need to get Citizen's Advice on my side first?

As far as they told me, they will progress the issue with trading standards (I can't do it myself, I've been told) if it requires escalation.

From what I see in google, I cannot do a "section 75" with a debit card. Chargeback sounds illegal at this point - don't I need to get a resolution saying I am entitled to my money back?

I noticed a small noise after about 190 miles. Drove it home like that and called the trader. He told me to "gently drive it to his garage for inspection". It broke down en route to him.

Ford Focus, 89,000 miles, FSH - no advisories, 6 months MOT.

Is it imperative that I tell you the trader's name? I'd like my public correspondence to stay untraceable for now.

Your purchase is subject to the Consumer Rights Act. Within the first 30 days of the purchase, you have something called the "short-term right to reject". This means that you do not have to prove anything. It is for the seller to prove that you are wrong. The presumption is that the defect was present at the time you brought the item.

In order to assert your short-term right to reject, you must send/deliver a letter to the seller informing him of the defect in the car and telling him that you are asserting your short-term right to reject under the CRA 2015 and that you want a refund.

I have no idea why Citizens Advice should have given you the advice which you say you receive from them. They are normally that bad and I can only imagine that maybe there was some misunderstanding in one direction or other.

Your problem now is to get rid of the car. You should take the car back to the dealer and assuming that he has a forecourt, you should leave it on the forecourt, making sure that you have taken pictures of the condition of the car when you have left it so nobody later on start accusing you of having caused any damage. It would be a good idea for somebody else to come along as a witness and maybe to video you leaving the car and giving the keys to the dealer or putting them through his door.

Don't get into any kind of confrontation. However, you need to get rid of the car so that it is no longer a liability for you otherwise it will just lead to complications.

As for you getting your money back, if he won't cooperate then you may have to take a legal action but your chances of success are better than 95%. Make sure that once you have left the car with the dealer, that you take all steps to make sure the DVLA realises that it is no longer your vehicle et cetera.

BankFodder couldn't have put it better.

One thing to add is that if after you gave back the car they refuse to refund, you can do a chargeback (sounds like you paid by debit card), this is not illegal and it is within your rights as a consumer.

OK, I think my next move would be to send the following letter + the second key (and the only thing I still have of the car).

Will you please look into this letter for me?

Do I need to say something about his claim that I "caused the damage by driving the car"?

Do I need to say something about his own assessment that the repairs are worth 1000 pounds?

What I am looking for is a full refund only. No repair or exchange from this cowboy...

*********

[Your address]

[Manager/ Owner]

[Dealership address]

Dear Sir/ Madam

Ref: [registration number of vehicle]

On [date] I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle [make and model] from you. On [date] I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: The engine began to produce unacceptable levels of noise.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality.

However, the vehicle is clearly unroadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.

I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle (“Short term right to reject”) and to be reimbursed for its full purchase price of £2900. I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 14 days. If you fail to reimburse me I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name and signature]

pers id go do a chargeback now

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?473626-Section-75-and-Charge-Back..-gt-Whats-the-difference-and-how-to-utilise-them

Thanks, the link you provided says:" Chargeback can be used in circumstances where you have paid for goods or services and the value of those goods or services is Less than £100. (and cannot be claimed from your card provider using Section 75)"

nope. it says over 100£, up to 30k?

I just copy-pasted text from the link

Anyway, what do you guys think about my letter?

I just copy-pasted text from the link

?

that bit is re if its under 100£ (in which case s75 doesnt apply). is it under 100£?

I don't mean to argue about nothing but the chargeback post, as shown in the link, doesn't say anything about "100-30k".

Now, I understand that "can" in this context means inclusion, not "can only".

Thanks!

thing is though, you say you used a debit card. which may be different re s75?

ie is just re 'chargeback' (not re s75).

From what I read in google, section 75 can be used by credit card payment only.

Anyway, section 75 isn't a silver bullet, it's a claim against the bank. I think I'd rather sue some barely-speaking-english garage cowboy than the bank

section 75 can be used by credit card payment only

pretty much yes, as posted. but can still try a chargeback with a debit card.

According to my bank (HSBC), I can go the chargeback route for 120 days since the purchase.

I would definitely consider it, depending on the response I get.

I didn't send the letter yet, was wondering if anyone could take a look and comment please?

Which garage please?

that comment on the chargeback PDF is simply referring to being ABLE to use chargeback below the £100 mark

whereas section 75 [on a credit card] doesn't allow redress under £100.

go do it!!

Letter is ok, but you need to change the. "cheque" to "refund".

Surely you don't want a cheque from this cowboy...

There's nothing to argue about the chargeback: You can do it and you won't be suing the bank.

Send the letter and if the cowboy doesn't play by the rules call the bank and very firmly demand a chargeback.

Depending on the bank and employee picking the phone up, they might give you hard time.

Do not get off the phone, they just want to mug you.

You are perfectly entitled to a chargeback in this case so the bank must do it.

Ah, I replied with the trader's name but it disappeared. Let's try again:

Active Motor Ltd

(07799) 377866 activemotorltd co uk

1 Capital House, North Circular Road, Stonebridge, NW10 7UD

I realize the moderator might have deleted my post about the trader's name, for repudiation reasons (thank you!)

Sorry if they have to do that again.

no we name and shame here!!

garage name added to the title

not sure it helps a lot.

Ad sites just say "Trade Seller", so the buyers can't really google the trader.

On the other hand, if the trader is running any sort of damage control, they'll be aware when their names pops up on the internet and may access this thread to gain information about my next steps and other information I wouldn't admit to them.

and you'll win.

never hurt things before

OK, Development!

1. I called a solicitor (95 pounds per hour - not bad, compared to my local solicitors of 300 pounds per hour).

He said the letter was just right but I addressed it to the Person owning the company instead of the LTD company.

He said I don't have to resend (with the correct address) as the judge viewing the case will understand that I am not a professional (plus, I did get the address right).

he said resending the letter is OK and I did.

2. I got a phone call from the trader but I didn't pick up. I am a very anxious person and I am under a lot of stress and I can't handle it.

3. He did send me an SMS saying:

"Please bring the paperwork ( service H MOTs ets) for Ford Focus With the card you paid with when you purchased it for refund you agreed" (errors are from the original text).

I understand from this that he is willing to refund me.

I don't understand why I have to go to his premise. I really don't want to.

4. I called HSBC and they were, of course, unwilling to do a chargeback.

You know how helpful big organizations are...

They said if the seller agreed to a refund, there is no dispute and hence no charge-back.

However, I do believe this is still a dispute as he is not entitled to tell me where to go.

It's a big journey for me to get there.

Questions:

1. Do I have to actually go to his premises?

I would like to add that the trader's ethnic group is very hostile to my ethnic group and us getting along is a rarity.

It was OK while I was buying a car but add a little lack of goodwill and I'd feel very tight in that situation.

2. Couldn't he just call his bank to reverse this transaction?

Or ask for my bank details and wire the money to me?

Thanks

yes he would need the card to chargeback to it himself using it in his machine

however theres nowt to stop him using bacs on his interweb banking portal send the money too you...