Hi all.

Will try to keep this brief.

My daughter got a CCJ in 2012 for non payment of college / higher education fees .

A writ was issued by Andrew Wilson in Aug 2013,

we think this came through the post as we don't remember anyone visiting the house.

We were in between houses so were renting at the time.

we wrote and made an arrangement to pay £20 per month as she was only working part time to which they agreed.

They also told us a £126 admin fee would be charged for this.

the initial debt was £1770 ,

she has paid £920 and was considering paying the remaining balance and clearing the CCJ

called them today to find out what she owed and to our absolute horror the balance is £2196.

interest has been added at 29p per day .

Enforcement officers fees have been added totalling £1345.79 !!!

We have never had an enforcement officer visiting the property - why have these been added.

Can this interest be added?

Can someone please help ,

all she has tried to do is educate herself after getting made redundant and the poor girl has this noose round her neck with the balance just increasing . .

Hello and welcome to CAG.

I've moved your thread to the main bailiffs forum, people should be along later to advise.

My best, HB

The most important thing for the moment is that while you are dealing with this – with our help, that you keep on paying the agreed instalments. Do not use this as an opportunity to stop instalments in a kind of protest. It will make no difference other than to make life much more difficult.

She should not be required to pay more than the judgement sum. They have charged you and admin fee which quite frankly I think it's excessive – but you have agreed it anyway so you might as well let it pass. If the judgement contained no reference to interest or any other charges, then she should not be liable for it.

I think that you should begin by posting up the claim form, the defence if any and also a copy of the judgement in PDF format here please. Once we see that we can proceed to advise.

Also, have you got the agreement that you made in writing? If so, please would you post that up as well – in PDF. Redacted it all to remove identifiers

Have you any information as to how the enforcement officer fees have been calculated?

Hi . I'll try and add a photo of the breakdown of the charges.

She will continue paying this without fail. Can I post a photo on here

Ok will do all this tomorrow if that ok.

Impossible to do on my iPad . Thankyou for all your help.

This is pre 2014 so comes under the old rules.

Quite a few of those charges can be challenged.

As you can see very little is actually being paid off the original debt and it will take quite sometime to pay it off in full at this rate.

One thing to look for is to see if there is a fee charged on the anniversary of the Writ for renewal

- a Writ only lasts for 12 months but can be renewed each year.

Have you thought to ask the Creditor how much is outstanding?

According to the file you have produced they are saying they have attended - if so when?

There are also alluding to the fact goods have been seized

- do you have a Walking Possession Agreement? etc etc

we need to see as much as you have but please make sure you remove all personal details first and it is better uploaded as a PDF file.

Thankyou. We never had any face to face contact with anyone from Andrew Wilson. She made this agreement in 2013 and has paid this since religiously and not heard anything from them since until yesterday when she rang them to find out her balance.

"A writ was issued by Andrew Wilson in Aug 2013,

we think this came through the post as we don't remember anyone visiting the house.

We were in between houses so were renting at the time. "

If they were allowed in and listed goods, whose goods were listed? They can only list those of the named debtor, if all goods listed were yours then might be a challenge there, that is assuming they did list goods.

They might have listed a car outside, any car happened a lot under the old rules.

Ask them for the list of goods as they didn't appear to have given you one.

If as you said no call was made then those fees are very naughty.

It would be well worth spending £10 on a Subject Access Request to find out what has gone on here. The results should show at the very least when & how much each fee was applied.

Reverting back to the payments made and interest charged then if we take an average month of 30 days then @ 29p per day the interest per month will be some £8-70. Subtract this from the £20 per month that is being paid & you can now visualise how the debt is more now than it was when it first started. Sorry to say but low payments with HCEO companies should not be considered for this very reason.

Thankfully, in 2014, bailiffs regulations were completely overhauled and a new and far simpler fee scale was introduced. The fees that your daughter has been charged are those that were in place pre 2014. That said, even under the new regulations, if an initial visit is made and your daughter is not at home and a second visit is required, the fees that would be charged are as follows:

Compliance fee of £75

First Enforcement Stage fee: £190 (plus VAT)

Second Enforcement Stage fee: £495 (plus VAT).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/schedule/made?view=plain

Hi. We were in a terraced rented house at the time. no driveway , car parking on the road. No one ever entered the house.

 

Hi. We were in a terraced rented house at the time. no driveway , car parking on the road. No one ever entered the house.

 

Is this the same address for both CCJ & Writ?

Name still showing in second letter q3...upload unapproved.

Regards

Andy

She should not be required to pay more than the judgement sum. They have charged you and admin fee which quite frankly I think it's excessive – but you have agreed it anyway so you might as well let it pass. If the judgement contained no reference to interest or any other charges, then she should not be liable for it.

It's a shame that so much of the advice given by BankFodder is incorrect. She will be required to pay more than the judgment sum as it is stated on the writ that the debt due will include the fees of the HCEO. The admin fee may be challengeable but is not unreasonable and I have seen higher fees allowed by the Masters. And even if the judgment made no reference to interest, it can be applied upon the issue of the writ (at 8% per annum) which is what has happened here. The interest for debts over £5k runs from the date of judgment and below £5k it runs from the date of certificate (the sealed N293A).

Firstly, the comments by other posters are correct in that this writ falls under the old HCEO Regulations of 2004.

It is very unlikely the Notice of Seizure was sent through the post and it was almost certainly out through the door by an Enforcement Agent. There has been much argument as to whether some of the fees can be charged where no seizure is made and I have seen this go either way when challenged. However, in this matter it would be of use if you asked AW&Co for the inventory of goods seized.

Once you have that you can then look at the fees charged and challenge those that you think are unlawful. This is best done to AW&Co in the first instance as the costs associated with a detailed assessment can be onerous. In my experience most HCEOs will take a sensible view on the fees charged and reduce those that may be arguable to get the matter resolved.

Hi. The admin fee is the least of the problem. At the end of the day it is their word against ours how can we prove they did not visit and I'm appalled they can behave like this. The charges for the said visits are blatant lies and this is what worries me. I have emailed Andrew Wilson yesterday for details of the so called visits to which they have not replied. We have called HL solicitors who apparently instructed Andrew Wilson to issue the writ and they have closed down and the debt has now been passed on to someone called turner parkinson who say she owes £917.70 and they have no record of her having any agreement or any payments !!! They are going to investigate with the college ?? So the debt has been sold on with no previous history - how can this happen.

Why haven't Andrew Wilson informed us HL solicitors are no longer in business - where are the payments ( all be it not much) going now ??

This site is amazing and Thankyou for all your help .

Is this the same address for both CCJ & Writ?

No . The CCJ was at our previous address .

It's a shame that so much of the advice given by BankFodder is incorrect. She will be required to pay more than the judgment sum as it is stated on the writ that the debt due will include the fees of the HCEO. The admin fee may be challengeable but is not unreasonable and I have seen higher fees allowed by the Masters. And even if the judgment made no reference to interest, it can be applied upon the issue of the writ (at 8% per annum) which is what has happened here. The interest for debts over £5k runs from the date of judgment and below £5k it runs from the date of certificate (the sealed N293A).

 

Firstly, the comments by other posters are correct in that this writ falls under the old HCEO Regulations of 2004.

 

It is very unlikely the Notice of Seizure was sent through the post and it was almost certainly out through the door by an Enforcement Agent. There has been much argument as to whether some of the fees can be charged where no seizure is made and I have seen this go either way when challenged. However, in this matter it would be of use if you asked AW&Co for the inventory of goods seized.

 

Once you have that you can then look at the fees charged and challenge those that you think are unlawful. This is best done to AW&Co in the first instance as the costs associated with a detailed assessment can be onerous. In my experience most HCEOs will take a sensible view on the fees charged and reduce those that may be arguable to get the matter resolved.

Hi. The admin fee is the least of the problem. At the end of the day it is their word against ours how can we prove they did not visit and I'm appalled they can behave like this. The charges for the said visits are blatant lies and this is what worries me. I have emailed Andrew Wilson yesterday for details of the so called visits to which they have not replied. We have called HL solicitors who apparently instructed Andrew Wilson to issue the writ and they have closed down and the debt has now been passed on to someone called turner parkinson who say she owes £917.70 and they have no record of her having any agreement or any payments !!! They are going to investigate with the college ?? So the debt has been sold on with no previous history - how can this happen.

Why haven't Andrew Wilson informed us HL solicitors are no longer in business - where are the payments ( all be it not much) going now ??

This site is amazing and Thankyou for all your help .

If a law firm closes down the cases are usually picked up by another law firm via the SRA, in this case Turner Parkinson. It might be that they are not aware of the fees charged by the HCEO which is why the amount they quote is lower. It may be that they are not aware the HCEO is involved at all. However don't be fooled into thinking all the fees can now be disregarded. Under the writ the HCEO is entitled to his fees and if a client disregards this then they would usually become liable.

As already said, in the first instance you need the details of the visit(s) and what, if anything, was seized. Once you know that it is easier to advise what fees can be challenged, if any. You should also ask if the writ of fieri facias that was issued has been renewed.

Once these details are given this forum will be better placed to advise.

If a law firm closes down the cases are usually picked up by another law firm via the SRA, in this case Turner Parkinson. It might be that they are not aware of the fees charged by the HCEO which is why the amount they quote is lower. It may be that they are not aware the HCEO is involved at all. However don't be fooled into thinking all the fees can now be disregarded. Under the writ the HCEO is entitled to his fees and if a client disregards this then they would usually become liable.

 

As already said, in the first instance you need the details of the visit(s) and what, if anything, was seized. Once you know that it is easier to advise what fees can be challenged, if any. You should also ask if the writ of fieri facias that was issued has been renewed.

 

Once these details are given this forum will be better placed to advise.

I have emailed and asked for full details and dates etc etc . This was emailed directly to the lady who sent us the statement - no response or acknowledgement . Do I phone or write ? What is renewal of a writ exactly ?

Once you have that you can then look at the fees charged and challenge those that you think are unlawful. This is best done to AW&Co in the first instance as the costs associated with a detailed assessment can be onerous. In my experience most HCEOs will take a sensible view on the fees charged and reduce those that may be arguable to get the matter resolved.

Until I see evidence proving otherwise, I am strongly of the opinion that issuing legal proceedings (by way of detailed assessment) to challenge bailiffs fees, is a very risky and uneccessary procedure. I have always found that challenging bailiff fees direct with the enforcement company is by far the best solution.

In the case of High Court writs, the most contentious fee continues to be the 'sale stage' fee but this fee again is quickly removed when properly challenged.

I have emailed and asked for full details and dates etc etc . This was emailed directly to the lady who sent us the statement - no response or acknowledgement . Do I phone or write ? What is renewal of a writ exactly ?

Can you please have a look at your private messages as I have sent you a PM with the name and contact details of a particularly helpful person at Andrew Wilson & Co who I am sure will be able to resolve your daughters query satisfactorily.

Until I see evidence proving otherwise, I am strongly of the opinion that issuing legal proceedings (by way of detailed assessment) to challenge bailiffs fees, is a very risky and unecessary procedure. I have always found that challenging bailiff fees direct with the enforcement company is by far the best solution. I agree with that.

 

In the case of High Court writs, the most contentious fee continues to be the 'sale stage' fee but this fee again is quickly removed when properly challenged. That may be true under the new rules but under the old rules you have to take each fee in turn and ask for justification of it.

PT

 

Can you please have a look at your private messages as I have sent you a PM with the name and contact details of a particularly helpful person at Andrew Wilson & Co who I am sure will be able to resolve your daughters query satisfactorily.

 

You may need to send this via a member of the Site Team as the OPs post count is low.