Hi All,

I am a company car driver and I think I've made the fatal mistake of giving PPS my name and address.

Long story short:

Parked at the Crossways Shopping centre in Paignton and as I had been ill with a stomach bug through the night when I arrived, I was physically ill again (and took a few minutes to gather myself) before I purchased a ticket.

They have a photo showing I arrived at 11.24:39 and I have a ticket, valid until 13.43, purchased at 11.43,

therefore a period of 19 minutes elapsed between me arriving and buying a ticket.

They have stated that they have a 10 minute "grace" period and that I contravened this by 9 minutes, therefore I am liable to a £100 or reduced fee of £60!

After my employer received the initial notice, as I assumed I'd done nothing wrong because I had a valid ticket that I assumed they had obviously overlooked, I disclosed my name, address and emailed them accordingly.

I've just received a further email telling me my claim has been rejected due to the 9 minutes over that I took to buy the ticket which I find absolutely unbelievable

- especially as I left the car park at 12.58 with 45 minutes still remaining on the ticket!

what should I do now?

many thanks in advance

Ian

as far as i'm aware the 10 minutes grace period is if you exceed you parking ticket time

nothing I've read indicates there is any time limit to when you buy the ticket having entered and parked

just trying to spoof you.

i'd let this run.

for there to be any mileage in their claim they must have a method of paying before you park, some kind of telepathic communication with potential customers and their bank accounts.

In short, they have to give time for offer and consideration of contract, getting change, finding the ticket machine etc.

They have a ANPR systme that ties in with the entry/exit of your vehicle plus the info on the purchased ticket.

What they cant tell is how long you drove round the car park looking for a space or how long you were actually parked.

Also i bet that their signage doesnt mention how long you have to go and get the ticket in the first place.

Next question is

how long was the time you were permitted to park by dint of buying their ticket?

If for example an hour when does that hour start,

when you enter the car park or when you buy the ticket?

What about if you left 10 minutes before the expiry time,

does that count from the time you entered or bought the ticket so was there an overstay of not?

Is there a specific clause mentioning that this is a breach of the contract you hadt agreed to until you put the money into the machine as you didnt agree to be bound by the conditions until you paid.

These are all points the parking company has to address in an unambiguoius manner or they cant say you are in the wrong.

In short, they are trying to rook you because they are too stupid to understand their own system.

If you can get down to the place and photograph the signage at the entrance and the signage on the ticket machine we can go into better detail but for the moment dont worry about this,

there is plenty of time for you to get what you need to knock this on the head but dont lose the ticket you bought!

Hi Erics Brother - thank you so much for taking the time out to reply. I am going to drive down to this car park over the next few days to take photos etc and will attempt to post my findings here as soon as I can work out how to!

Many thanks for your time

It sounds as though you may have paid enough for the total time the ANPR knows you were on-site, so they would have a tough time claiming that you had broken the contract with them.

exactly, that is why the grace period of 10 mins under the BPA CoP is a MINIMUM.

Also the contract doesnt start until you agree to it, up to that point it is an "invitation to treat".

Bit like you looking into a shop window that has a 50% off most items sale.

This doesnt bind the shopkeeper to making everything 50% off and nor does it force you to buy an item just because you ask if it is in the sale.

It just lays out the grounds for the start of negotiations.

Evening everyone,

Today I travelled back to the car-park from which I received my ticket. If anything it has made me more angry as it just proves that whoever issues the Apppeal Rejection Letters has no clue about the site's in question (I know you all already realise this!).

as i don't know how to post photos to this page, my wife and I scoured the car-park looking for incriminating signs - we couldn't find anything that would back up their claim that I'm in the wrong.

At the entrance there's a sign stating:

"Welcome To Crossways"

PRIVATE LAND

All vehicles must Pay & Display

or have a valid permit

See notices in car park for details

CAMERA ENFORCEMENT IN OPERATION

And that is all says apart from giving the operator's (PPS) details underneath

Then there is another sign:

Welcome To

Crossways

Pay & Display Car Park

80p Per Hour

£3 For 12 Hours

Then there's another sign:

Welcome To Crossways Pay & Display car Park

Please Pay at meter and display your ticket clearly on the vehicle dashboard

(With arrows pointing to meter and exit)

Then another larger sign (which I thought would be the incriminating one as under it has a list of 13 Conditions. These are all listed under a statement that reads

"Parking conditions enforced with patrols and automatic number plate recognition cameras"

Conditions of Parking - Warning: Contractual Agreement

(Without listing all the Conditions)

1) all vehicles must display a valid ticket in the front windshield at all times

11) if paying by phone or if required to enter a vehicle registration to authorise parking full & exact details must be entered correctly

12) Full payment must be made before leaving site (I thought this one was very telling!)

There is nothing written on the actual ticket machine apart from what is already stated above.

I cannot believe these people are still allowed to operate car-parks in this fraudulent manner. I would be happy to go to court just to show them up for what they actually are.

Once this matter is closed is there anywhere I can go to make a formal complaint?

Once again, thanks for your advice - it has been very welcome

you pop all the pictures into a PDF file

and attach them. is the easy way

upload

well, as said, invitation to treat,

confusing and contradictory signage and to cap it all

some of the signage is prohibitive so cant form a contract if you follow that part of the instructions.

The real point though is that there has been no breach of any of these conditions so they are talking out the wrong end of their alimentary canal.