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  1. #81
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Good result and without your help Bankfodder, i am not sure the OP would have achieved this.


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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Kind of you to say so. Not really me – it's really the lack of knowledge that consumers have in all areas and the impunity with which suppliers and sellers conduct themselves in respect of their clients. As you probably gathered by now, I consider that the peremptory cancellation of insurance is especially scandalous because not only does it hit the client, but also the innocent victims of accidents.

    I see that MCE insurers are big sponsors of a British Superbike Association along with other people such as Pirelli, Stena Line, Lloyds bank and Santandericon bank, of course and several others.

    It's about time that MCE were embarrassed about this and that their partners knew about it as well. I'm hoping that this case will help to do that. The appeal is actually tomorrow morning but it is just a formality now and afterwards I hope that we will start preparing for a county courticon claim to recover all losses. I'm also hoping to attract some attention in the media about this.

    What this definitely means is that cancellation of insurance policy on a technicality is unlawful and hopefully other people who have been affected by this in the past will find out about this thread and will decide to do something about it themselves.

    As far as I can see, there is no limit on this. If people have been involved in an accident or have been convicted for driving without insurance at any time then if it has been caused by a technical cancellation of insurance policy and I'm pretty certain that we can help them undo the damage which has been caused by the insurer.



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  3. #83
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    I know someone accused of driving with no insurance that the insurer finally confirmed they should have been covered (the insurer made an error).

    The CPS then withdrew the no insurance charge, but (in court...) stated they were proceeding with an alternate charge of failure to produce the insurance certificate!

    The clerk to the court asked "are you sure?" in disbelief, and the prosecutor replied (in an embarrassed tone!) "I am instructed ....."!
    (The conclusion was that they knew it was a nonsense, but were acting under instructions)

    The case was held over. The solicitor for the accused noted that if the certificate CAN'T be produced (e.g. The insurers haven't provided it) that is a defence PROVIDED it is produced as soon as it can be.

    So, get the certificate from the insurers, and produce it (at a police station, NOT to the court) as soon as you receive it, just in case the CPS decide to be difficult, to cover yourself.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/165
    S165 (4)(b) regarding producing "as soon as reasonably practicable".


  4. #84
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    This is really great news.

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  5. #85
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Yes it is. I have just heard that the quashing of the conviction has been confirmed by the court at Snaresbrook. Apparently they will now communicate with the DVLA which apparently will remove the points from his licence.

    We will now be trying to go through the facts, the losses and other consequences of the unlawful insurance cancellation by MCE in order to decide how to proceed in the county courticon to obtain compensation.

    I have realised that MCE is a huge insurer – especially of motorcyclists and so I would recommend to anyone who drives a motorcycle or who knows any motorcyclists to find out if anyone has any contact with anybody else who has had their insurance peremptorily cancelled on a technicality. Of course, this doesn't only apply to motorcycles. It applies to all insurances – including cars, bikes, mobile phones, personal injury insurance, house insurance – everything.

    I'm quite sure that there are huge number of people who are having their insurance cancelled or their claim is denied simply on some technicality such as has happened here. It's fairly safe to say that in every case that cancellation or loss denial would have been unlawful.

    The OP showed the ICOBSicon regulations to the representative of the Crown Prosecution Service at the court and that representative responded that he had never heard of it. He simply said that the OP was very lucky that the insurer had responded because it was very unusual that they ever do respond. I'm quite sure that is true.



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  6. #86
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Can i just make a point here about Insurers not responding when there is a complaint about a legal compliance issue.

    If a consumer complains to an Insurers customers services or claims department, it is highly likely that the person dealing with the complaint does not have the qualifications, experience or knowledge to deal with all matters raised. They might not even really know ICOBSicon that well. Therefore they don't really respond to the complaint properly and the consumer is left exposed to the problems created for them.

    If you want a proper response to any legal compliance issue, it is absolutely essential that the complaint is addressed to head or director of compliance at the Insurers head office. The letter must be made VERY clear that there is a legal compliance issue at stake and NOT just a general complaint to be passed on to customer servicesicon. In this case involving MCE, it appears it was only resolved because their compliance manager dealt with the communications received.

    Even underwriting departments are variable, as some are really just customer servicesicon. They might have an actual head office underwriting section that deals with writing policies, setting premium rates and dealing with complex technical matters. They might deal with Police enquiries where there are required to issue confirmation of whether a person is Insured or not. BUT they are not always qualified to the same level as compliance officers. Compliance is a very different entity as they tend to look at things more from a legal point, rather than Insurance underwriting or process. They often have legal and insurance qualifications.


  7. #87
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    I agree with everything you say except that I say that the responsibility still lies completely with the insurer. I don't think that you can expect ordinary people who no doubt very much under stress because of the insurance/accident circumstances to know exactly who to write to. I can imagine most ordinary people have never heard of "compliance" or realise that there is a compliance officer in the organisation.

    Comply with what? Writing to a compliance officer predicates that the customer is aware of the compliance issue and aware of the requirements of ICOBSicon. Nobody knows about this. The Crown Prosecution Service don't know about it. The OP consulted several solicitors and they didn't know about it. They simply told him to put his hands up and that nothing could be done.

    Insurance companies make their money out of selling insurance. They are regulated by the FCA and it is up to them to make sure that their staff development is good enough that there call centre staff recognise when they might be a possibility of a compliance issue. Any cancellation of insurance should be flagged up to some compliance clerk who is trained to look for the reasons and to decide whether or not there is a compliance issue which should be sent up to a senior compliance officer. Any loss denial which depends on the termination of an insurance policy should be treated similarly.

    At the end of the day it is the insurer which commits the offence of breaching its statutory duty and therefore it is the insurer who has responsibility to guard against that.

    It's all a question of investment and the trouble is that so far not enough people challenge the insurers on this and cost them sufficient money then it becomes worth their while to spend more money on staff development. On the other hand, they spend lots of money on loss denial and you might like to know that about 25 years ago I received an invitation to a very plush two-day event in London – mainly for insurers but also for lawyers who represented them – and it was called "Loss Denial".

    I don't think I've ever seen a conference called "Compliance Obligations".



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  8. #88
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    good to see ICOBSicon does have a bit of bite
    well done all.

    IMO

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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ford View Post
    good to see ICOBSicon does have a bit of bite
    well done all.
    ICOBSicon is very powerful . but it hasn't really been tested yet because the insurance company provided a letter of indemnity after being threatened but no one has admittedany liability or blame yet.that has still to come in a county courticon claim
    Of course it was the ICOBSicon threatwhich produced the result . in exactly the way that BCOBSicon has produced dramatic results in banking.


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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Ok l have a question.

    You have said about the insurer cancelling the policy on a technicality or paperwork issue but what if they cancel the policy for no or unknown reasons.

    Reason l asked is a few years ago my ex brother in law got pulled by police for no insurance. As far as he was concerned he was insured. They had not told him he was not they were still taking the payment out of his bank account monthly and even denied he was not uninsured when he called them the next day. He took all the details to the police and they said it was strange and eventually apologised and gave him the car back and as a gesture of good willicon did not charge him fees.

    The company never reinstated the policy and after months he got a full refund but gave no answers.

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  11. #91
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Quote Originally Posted by BankFodder View Post
    ICOBSicon is very powerful . but it hasn't really been tested yet because the insurance company provided a letter of indemnity after being threatened but no one has admittedany liability or blame yet.that has still to come in a county courticon claim
    Of course it was the ICOBSicon threatwhich produced the result . in exactly the way that BCOBSicon has produced dramatic results in banking.
    cheers.
    your comment there above #85 is a good point. codification.
    ....There is nothing new about the ICOBS rules. Going back hundreds of years in the common law of contract, the law has always recognised the difference between a fundamental breach of contract – breach of condition – and non-fundamental breach of contract..........


    IMO

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  12. #92
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    So in theory anyone who has had their insurance cancelled for no good reason can now look for compensation and the removal of the cancellation from their record?

    Won't this cost insurance companies millions?


  13. #93
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    i had mine cancelled on me, as i had not sent in my proof of NCD in time a few years ago, what is annoying they have access to these things online, and after 3 years your points are removed and forgotten about, but can they demand you tell them upto 5 years, how can they make a judgement that i might get points again, and if i don't tell them my policy will be canceled, btw my license is clear, and more than 5 years ago lol


  14. #94
    Basic Account Holder ken gunnel Novitiate



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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Quote Originally Posted by BankFodder View Post
    I agree with everything you say except that I say that the responsibility still lies completely with the insurer. I don't think that you can expect ordinary people who no doubt very much under stress because of the insurance/accident circumstances to know exactly who to write to. I can imagine most ordinary people have never heard of "compliance" or realise that there is a compliance officer in the organisation.

    Comply with what? Writing to a compliance officer predicates that the customer is aware of the compliance issue and aware of the requirements of ICOBSicon. Nobody knows about this. The Crown Prosecution Service don't know about it. The OP consulted several solicitors and they didn't know about it. They simply told him to put his hands up and that nothing could be done.

    Insurance companies make their money out of selling insurance. They are regulated by the FCA and it is up to them to make sure that their staff development is good enough that there call centre staff recognise when they might be a possibility of a compliance issue. Any cancellation of insurance should be flagged up to some compliance clerk who is trained to look for the reasons and to decide whether or not there is a compliance issue which should be sent up to a senior compliance officer. Any loss denial which depends on the termination of an insurance policy should be treated similarly.

    At the end of the day it is the insurer which commits the offence of breaching its statutory duty and therefore it is the insurer who has responsibility to guard against that.
    Looking at forums, this is a widespread problem, not only are customers cheated out of money by having the yearly policy they paid for vanish, but they are also cheated every year for the rest of the lives through having to pay over the odds for all types of insurance that they may need.

    If this practice is unlawful, then is this not to insurance companies what PPIicon was to banks?


  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken gunnel View Post
    Looking at forums, this is a widespread problem, not only are customers cheated out of money by having the yearly policy they paid for vanish, but they are also cheated every year for the rest of the lives through having to pay over the odds for all types of insurance that they may need.

    If this practice is unlawful, then is this not to insurance companies what PPIicon was to banks?
    IMO yes. The thing is l can see this being as big if not bigger. This could cover not just car but all vechile, House, life and all other insurances.


  16. #96
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    Default Re: MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

    Bankfodder, did the civil case ever get started, if so is there an update? I am very interested in this, I am considering bringing an ICOBSicon claim against an insurer myself.



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