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Bought a car through private sale - now have mechanical problems


GASS
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Hi all,

 

I bought a car through a private sale a couple of months ago, (£1750) it was advertised as in Good Condition. It was test driven and all okay. Bought the car and within a couple of weeks there was an issue with starting and the lights on one side of the vehicle failed, as well as no reversing lights.

 

I have just picked up the car from my local garage and they have fixed the light problem, broken wiring (£159) I had also asked them to check out the starting problem. and they have advised the following.

2 x diesel injectors found to be leaking fuel back to tank cost of £900 to fit including labour.

 

There are also fault codes appearing EGR Valve signal and Camshaft Sensor Signal. (no costs given yet)

 

I know this was a private purchase, but I am wondering that as these are mechanical and would not have been seen at time of purchase, where would I stand with claiming some of the costs back for repairs.bearing in mind the advert was Good Condition and I still have a copy of the advert. Is it down to the seller to prove they were working at the time, I spoke to the mechanic and he advised that the injector issue happens over a period of time so its not an over night problem.

 

any thoughts welcome, I would be happy to just get some money back from the seller.

:lol: GASS
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Well this is to be a bit of a mystery over private sales. People seem to think that because trade sales are covered by consumer legislation that they have no particular rights in respect of private sales.

 

I tend to disagree. I think particularly that if the advertisement says that the car is in good condition then that becomes an expressed term of the contract and so I think that you have rights which you can enforce.

 

Where your rights differ from your rights under the Consumer Rights Act is that you don't automatically have the 30 day et cetera remedies.

 

I think that you should start off by getting a full written assessment of what is wrong with the car and an estimate for repairs. Don't forget, that you have bought a second-hand car and so I don't think that you would be entitled to 100% of the repair price because that would put the car into a better condition than that which you contracted for.

 

I think that once you get this written report then you should contact the seller – keeping it friendly and polite – explain the problem and invite the seller to share the costs with you. At the price you have paid, it must be a pretty old car so I would have thought that if you could get about 33% of the repair cost – given that you effectively get a lot of brand-new parts, and a new repair, that you would probably be getting a fair result. So if you started to invite him to pay, say, 75% of the costs and then fell back to 50% or so then you would be doing very well.

 

On the other hand, you could insist that he takes the car back but I think that here you could be asking for a lot of trouble. You will have to get the car to him. You will have to do leave it on his forecourt – not on the road – you will have to deregister it from your name and find some way of transferring it to his name and of course you will then have to do argue for your money back and maybe sue.

 

If he turns out to be totally unhelpful then you could consider a small claim in the County Court. I think your chances of success are very high. If you did decide to claim then I would be claiming for my money back. I will also warn him that I would be adding to the claim the cost of any storage of the vehicle during the dispute – which would likely to be up to 6 months.

 

If you want a bit more advice about how you might go about all of this, read through the forum or alternatively get yourself a copy of the new Consumer Survival Handbook – I hope that you will forgive me plugging this book in your thread.

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I disagree with Bankfodder on this.

If you believe, and can prove, that the seller knew of these faults when selling the car, then you stand a good chance as he should have declared them when selling.

 

Other than that, soga does NOT apply to private sales like this and I would say you would stand 0% in court.

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I also disagree with BF.

 

caveat emptor applies on private car sales 100%.

 

 

+1

 

Caveat Emptor "Buyer beware" does indeed apply here.

 

Unless, which also been pointed out above, that the seller deliberately withheld pertinent information &/also said untruths about the car in the advert/description.

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every single minute of it!!

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From my reading of the OP's post, the issues occurred after the sale of the car so there is a very good chance that unless the seller was blessed with crystal balls (and the buyer would have noticed the funny walk) the seller would not have been aware of the problems as at the time of the sale they had not occurred and the seller could not be expected to foretell the future

It is easier to enter a rich man than for a camel to pass a needle

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Now this is where it gets complicated. Perhaps the seller wasn't car savvy and didn't know of the mechanical faults.

Because of comeback in certain circumstances surrounding private sales, I never use the words "Good Condition" when advertising a car for sale.

Any known defects are mentioned and it is then up to purchaser to decide if they want the car or not, this way I feel I am covered.

To some, a car may be in good condition whilst others would disagree.

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Hi all,

 

Update, my car is in a worse state than originally advised, the valves have now gone on the engine as well as the injectors. the repair is now going to be more than the car. Despite what opinions are, I would expect a car to last a bit longer than 2 months???

 

Not that I doubt any advise on this site, in fact the opposite as the site has helped me elsewhere. BUT i also approached the CAB about this and outlined my issues as above in my original post and this is what they have said:

 

Your rights and obligations:

Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (As Amended) all goods supplied must match their description. If this is not the case then you may ask for what you should have got or a refund. You do not get any rights regarding the quality of the product or it being fit for purpose with a private sale. Sometimes the seller may ask you to prove what you are claiming to be true.

 

Criminal offence:

As misleading customers is a criminal offence we will be passing this information onto the appropriate Trading Standards authorities to make them aware of your concerns. The case is being with referred with no commitment to contact yourself, but they may contact you if they wish to discuss the matter further or require further information.

 

Your next steps:

We would suggest taking a formal approach and addressing the seller in writing. We would suggest obtaining proof of sending the letter/email and keeping a copy of any contact – this may help you prove that you have contacted the seller and tried to resolve the matter amicably.

 

We would advise you outline any relevant events regarding this issue and make it clear what you expect from the seller and why. It should also give the seller a reasonable time to resolve the matter.

:lol: GASS
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  • 3 weeks later...

Unfortunately as you have been advised unless you can prove the seller knowingly lied about the mechanical issue he you have 0 chance of claiming. Go back to the advert, does it say the car is in good condition and will not break down in 2 months time? I doubt it. It is your responsibility as the buyer to test it and accept the sale. Personally I wouldn't be spending that sort of cash without a professional inspection from the AA or similar. Caveat Emptor.

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Sorry if this seems harsh but I have had a similar experience from the seller's aspect specifically that I sold a classic motorcycle which required 2 stroke oil to be mixed with the petrol, the buyer knew this and had run similar bikes before, yet called me a month after buying the bike complaining the engine had seized. On inspection it turned out he ran it with no 2 stroke oil and by his own admission when he did put 2 stoke oil in he used the wrong mix, which was something I spent a long time explaining to him when he collected the bike. I was annoyed that he had ruined an excellent classic bike but no way was I going to refund any money for his stupidity and inability to listen.

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How many miles were on the car before purchase? "Good Condition" is not "Excellent Condition" and sorry if this appears harsh but, a car below £2k should be expected to be "tired"

 

Finally, would you buy a house without a surveyors report? A friendly lo cal mechanic is £50 well spent on a car purchase.

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Hi all,

 

Update, my car is in a worse state than originally advised, the valves have now gone on the engine as well as the injectors. the repair is now going to be more than the car. Despite what opinions are, I would expect a car to last a bit longer than 2 months???

 

Not that I doubt any advise on this site, in fact the opposite as the site has helped me elsewhere. BUT i also approached the CAB about this and outlined my issues as above in my original post and this is what they have said:

 

Your rights and obligations:

Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (As Amended) all goods supplied must match their description. If this is not the case then you may ask for what you should have got or a refund. You do not get any rights regarding the quality of the product or it being fit for purpose with a private sale. Sometimes the seller may ask you to prove what you are claiming to be true.

 

Criminal offence:

As misleading customers is a criminal offence we will be passing this information onto the appropriate Trading Standards authorities to make them aware of your concerns. The case is being with referred with no commitment to contact yourself, but they may contact you if they wish to discuss the matter further or require further information.

 

Your next steps:

We would suggest taking a formal approach and addressing the seller in writing. We would suggest obtaining proof of sending the letter/email and keeping a copy of any contact – this may help you prove that you have contacted the seller and tried to resolve the matter amicably.

 

We would advise you outline any relevant events regarding this issue and make it clear what you expect from the seller and why. It should also give the seller a reasonable time to resolve the matter.

 

How can CAB give you such poor and incorrect advice? The Sale of Goods Act does NOT apply as it was a private sale. Probably your only route for court action is the Misrepresentation Act however either way it will be very difficult to prove that the seller knew of the faults when selling the vehicle. Perhaps if you can get service records of where the car was repaired previously could help.

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a private seller will not know if there was a issue with injectors because I bet theres a lot of cars still on the road with faulty injectors you would only know if you paid a garage to do a service check

 

 

also if it got high mileage well you are going to get issues

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Good condition is a relatibe term. what is menas in this case will depend on a number of things and that will include the price paid for the vehicle relative to others of a similar age and even the new price, age, mileage, visual condition and the expertise of the seller.

So, if the seller was a mechanic by trade then his description would mean something different to an average Joe decsribing a car that has no dents and doesnt make strange noises. I doubt if a court will give anyone who paid £1750 of a car that had no visible faults any sympathy so your best bet is stop throwing good money after bad.

You had the opportunity to inspect it and you bought it after doing so and that places the burden of proof upon you and not the seller. Also even the passing of 2 months since the purchase is enough to blow a hole in any claim as you have "enjoyed" it for some time after its purchase. if it packed up on the way home it would be a different story.

Slavage what you can and either take an expert along with you to inspect your next vehicle of buy from someone where there is a comeback and expect to pay more because of this.

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  • 4 months later...

Hi GASS,

 

I've just read your story and I'm really sorry about what happened to you. I have a similar situation thought my car was £8K and I have proof from Audi the issues with the engine pre-existed the sale by months and the seller had been driving it during that time.

 

May I ask what happened with your car in the end? I have written to the seller as advised by the citizens advice referencing the sale of goods act though part me of thinks the mispresentation act is more appropriate as the seller stated the car was in 'excellent condition' and we've been told by Audi the problems having been there for months mean I shouldn't drive the car.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions you have based on your experience would be very much appreciated. Many thanks, NAbey

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Had a good laugh at this one indeed!

1. All diesel injectors have a leak off pipe which feeds back to the tank.

2. At the price paid I would think it's a very high mileage car so the EGR valve will fail at some point. It's a known issue across multiple manufacturers and by design is doing what it should. At some point in its life it will block by design the same way brakes wear out.

3. The camshaft sensor should last the life of the car but shows a DTC and warning light if it fails permanently so would think the DTC recorded is a historic one as if a permanent one the engine just would not run.

 

 

As ever we're never told what car and mileage to gauge if it's right or wrong for the model. I feel sorry for the seller as they probably didn't know. At the end of the day none of these are major issues and just need routine maintenance something you'd expect for a £1750 car. It ain't going to be perfect!!!

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All cars have their problems, which in this day and age is easier to research than ever, but people don't. They pay a fraction of the price of a new car and expect them to work perfectly and if it doesn't it's not their responsibility as they were 'mis sold' the car.

 

If you want a reasonable amount of protection, buy from an established reputable dealer, otherwise, if buying privately, get someone who knows about the car to check it over.

 

Everything these days is down to cost, people buy cheap and get problems. Expectations are too high these days, you used to get only 1 years warranty on new cars, now the norm is 3, cars used to be rotting away by 5 years old, now people are kicking up a fuss about rusty wings on 8 year old VWs.

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