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Well

I have had time to read a bit of news

 

Some of the pundits are suggesting that if the Tories win with a large majority she ( the wicked witch of the east - if Thatcher was of the west) will actually go for a softer brexit because she won't be hamstrung by the hardline eurosceptic fascists in her own party - no sitting on the fence for me

 

Oh by the way if anyone wants to see some real fascists in action- join the FB group British politics - it makes others look like a sunday school tea party

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Well

I have had time to read a bit of news

 

Some of the pundits are suggesting that if the Tories win with a large majority she ( the wicked witch of the east - if Thatcher was of the west) will actually go for a softer brexit because she won't be hamstrung by the hardline eurosceptic fascists in her own party - no sitting on the fence for me

 

Oh by the way if anyone wants to see some real fascists in action- join the FB group British politics - it makes others look like a sunday school tea party

 

OK fletch,

If thats made your mind up ....

Then please define this 'Softer Brexit' of Mays you are voting for?

You must be reasonably sure if its made your mind up.

Enlighten me, I must be missing something.

 

The EU has made its position quite clear. May is NOT getting Borearses cake and eating it.

 

The banks are moving to the EU

The businesses are moving to the EU

Trade will be reciprocal where its in both the UK's and ALL the rest of the EU;s interests - else tariffs

Tax haven isn't going to work if the EU imposes its expected banking reforms, let alone the expanded refroms demanded by some

(and these are regulations and requirements wanted by the EU, not freedoms from regulations and taxes as demanded by the banks of the UK

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-bank-cityuk-barclays-lower-taxes-light-regulation-eu-divorce-a7639361.html

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-boe-carney-idUKKBN1791DU

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-banks-eu-regulations-exclusive-idUKKBN17826Z

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/philip-hammonds-business-confidence-conference-marred-by-keynote-speakers-brexit-admission_uk_58ef4fede4b0b9e9848989aa?ir=UK+Politics&utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

 

Dont forget, it only takes 1 EU country to say NO in many cases, and a couple together saying NO would scupper almost any deal.

 

Its about time people realised that May has no cards. She will be hoping for a national front win in France.

 

They are resorting to posting graphs of how well the UK has traded hoping that people are too stupid or uninformed to realise that the ups on the graphs are all EU related.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-department-ridiculed-over-tweets-that-show-how-eu-membership-boosts-uk-trade-dexeu-david-davis-andrew-gwynne_uk_58f5c7c6e4b0da2ff862d08e

 

 

Its a sad state of affairs when the British future depends (again) on a French foible, as it did at the start of our half hearted journey with the continent

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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I think May is convinced that a quick hard brexit is best, but that would be a kamikaze act in my opinion. There is just too much that would need to be sorted out and many businesses would be seriously affected.

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I think May is convinced that a quick hard brexit is best, but that would be a kamikaze act in my opinion. There is just too much that would need to be sorted out and many businesses would be seriously affected.

 

To be fair to May in this area, what choice does she have?

 

Without freedom of movement, there is no passport or free trade, and how can May allow freedom of movement and betray pretty much absolutely everyone:

The 60%+ who DID NOT vote for Brexit?

AND

the certainly very high % who voted for Brexit to reduce the demon immigrants?

 

So we would lose many of the benefits to keep what it seems most feared and didnt want (probably even many who voted to remain despite the immigration issue) ...

Thats almost as bad as Corbyns plans.

 

 

All of which DOES NOT excuse the simple fact that despite Mays blethering about fairer society, ALL that she is doing is benefiting the wealthy at the expense of the rest of our society, and building the MOST unfair and unbalanced UK society we have seen in over 100 years.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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All of which DOES NOT excuse the simple fact that despite Mays blethering about fairer society, ALL that she is doing is benefiting the wealthy at the expense of the rest of our society, and building the MOST unfair and unbalanced UK society we have seen in over 100 years.

 

 

Having thought hard about this it seems to me that any Brexit part of this election is largely a smoke screen, and the REAL reason for this election is increased majority to push through the appalling and immensly divisive social changes planned by the tORIES

 

Further reducing and back door privatisation of the NHS

Further reductions in support and benefits for the poorest and most vulnerable in our society

Further reductions in social care and social programs

Further tax cuts for the wealthiest

MASSIVE Reductions in workers rights in 'the great Repeal'

Massive reductions in environmental protections in the grate repeal

 

I believe we are in the most unbalanced society since WW1 a hundred years ago and I see that a clear Tory majority will increase the split between the VERY rich (Most of whom live and pay small taxes elsewhere) and ALL the rest of society.

 

 

May doesn't need any more support for hard Brexit - she has all she needs in Corbyn and the EU stance regarding the UK's stupid and unreasonable demands and approach, and actually risks creating a harder, stronger opposition (wouldn't take much)

It MUST be mainly about driving the unfair social changes which she DOES NOT have the support for.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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To be fair to May in this area, what choice does she have?

 

Without freedom of movement, there is no passport or free trade, and how can May allow freedom of movement and betray pretty much absolutely everyone:

The 60%+ who DID NOT vote for Brexit?

AND

the certainly very high % who voted for Brexit to reduce the demon immigrants?

 

So we would lose many of the benefits to keep what it seems most feared and didnt want (probably even many who voted to remain despite the immigration issue) ...

Thats almost as bad as Corbyns plans.

 

 

All of which DOES NOT excuse the simple fact that despite Mays blethering about fairer society, ALL that she is doing is benefiting the wealthy at the expense of the rest of our society, and building the MOST unfair and unbalanced UK society we have seen in over 100 years.

 

The number of taxpayers is the highest it has ever been at 32 million, but due to part time hours, reduced wages in real terms and tax changes e.g personal tax allowance, the Government does not collect the tax required to fully fund services. As a population increases, you increase infrastructure by a commensurate amount.

We could do with some help from you.

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The number of taxpayers is the highest it has ever been at 32 million, but due to part time hours, reduced wages in real terms and tax changes e.g personal tax allowance, the Government does not collect the tax required to fully fund services. As a population increases, you increase infrastructure by a commensurate amount.

 

So what we need to see is fewer people but with full time jobs (or at least with sufficient hours and salary to bring them into the tax band) and that way we dont need to build millions of homes or dig up roads to lay down utilities - public transport and A&E will be less crowded ?

 

 

 

Migration is self perpetuating - the more people that come into the country, the more people and services are required to service/maintain them, yes?

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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So what we need to see is less people with full time jobs (or at least with sufficient hours and salary to bring them into the tax band) and that way we dont need to build millions of homes or dig up roads to lay down utilities - public transport and A&E will be less crowded ?

 

Migration is self perpetuating - the more people that come into the country, the more people and services are required to service/maintain them, yes?

 

If you balance all these things e.g like the game Sims, then you should have a perfect situation. One mans wages equalls x number of people employed to service their spending.

 

What has happened since the 1980's, is that most of the western world has become very unbalanced. It is not really due to globalisation or increasing populations. In my opinion, once the Banks were turned in casinos, able to print money, then countries like the UK became too invested in making money from doing no more than gambling. In 2007/08 when the Banks crashed it just exposed how stupid it all became. This is partly why houses and commercial property prices have remained so high, because there is so much of this printed money behind it. The whole system is designed to try to keep all of this mess together or risk a total collapse.

 

We get so fixated on some issues that Government is just trying to control enough to keep a voting majority happy. There is no reason why Government has not facilitated building of millions of additional houses, but of course that would impact on existing house prices and affect assets values held by the Banks. And Banks and/or Government would have more debt and carry more risk.

 

There is no reason not to build extra capacity in NHS, but of course the major problem is lack of qualified staff. UK needs to recruit from abroad, because we don't have enough training places. UK generally recruits from poorer countries, because they can't compete with wages paid in US, Australia, New Zealand. This is why we see British healthcare professionals leave for these countries and they are

replaced with staff from other countries.

 

The UK is going to need millions of immigrants over the coming years, otherwise the infrastructure investment won't happen within the timescales expected. I think the body that represents the construction industry estimated they needed 400,000 immigrants over the next 10 years.

 

Brexit in my opinion was used as a vehicle for people being unhappy about many issues, which will never be cured by leaving the EU. Many if the 17.1 million are going to be just as unhappy 10 years after Brexit, as they are now.

We could do with some help from you.

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Brexit in my opinion was used as a vehicle for people being unhappy about many issues, which will never be cured by leaving the EU.

 

Many if the 17.1 million are going to be just as unhappy 10 years after Brexit, as they are now.

 

If they are lucky some may only be just as unhappy.

Those issues you refer are going to get far worse, not because they have to, but because those in power have no interest in a fair and balanced society.

 

I'm moving to Scotland if May gets her way. If they do the same as RoI I should get nationality without having to buy a house now.

Good luck to the rest of you (especially Brexiters) as England moves into alignment with Turkey, especially in supporting partner Erdogan when Turkey goes the way of Syria

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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People keep raising immigration as the main reason for problem e.g housing costs, healthcare.

 

Australia has a 21 million population, with a fully controlled immigration system. They have many of the same problems as the UK. Just read their newspapers.

 

New Zealand has a 5 million population with a fully controlled immigration problem. Again same issues as UK.

 

US 330 million population. Same issues or even worse than UK in many ways.

 

It is not an immigration/population issue, but an economics issue. People need to get their heads out of the bog many politicians have put their heads down and start looking at the real world. Start researching facts and ask questions.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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People keep raising immigration as the main reason for problem e.g housing costs, healthcare.

 

Australia has a 21 million population, with a fully controlled immigration system. They have many of the same problems as the UK. Just read their newspapers.

 

New Zealand has a 5 million population with a fully controlled immigration problem. Again same issues as UK.

 

US 330 million population. Same issues or even worse than UK in many ways.

 

It is not an immigration/population issue, but an economics issue. People need to get their heads out of the bog many politicians have put their heads down and start looking at the real world. Start researching facts and ask questions.

 

 

Population numbers are the ultimate issue. Its what people have fought over since before we were monkeys.

Doubt that?

Then watch insects fight over territory as they have for 100 million years or more.

 

Economics can only go so far although the economics of the UK are wrong on all fronts.

 

The nuclear reactors etc etc should be built by the UK, generating UK jobs and UK skills and with the profits feeding back into the UK.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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'The president of the European parliament has said Britain would be welcomed back with open arms if voters changed their minds about Brexit on 8 June, challenging Theresa May’s claim that “there is no turning back” after article 50. Speaking after a meeting with the prime minister in Downing Street, Antonio Tajani insisted that her triggering of the departure process last month could be reversed easily by the remaining EU members if there was a change of UK government after the general election, and that it would not even require a court case....'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/20/european-parliament-will-welcome-britain-back-if-voters-veto-brexit

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Isn't life interesting at the moment

 

I genuinely can not see labour pulling anything out of the bag and am struggling to feel they deserve any support

 

My area has been in recent a Tory seat since God were a lad and apart from a bounce of labour support in 1997 the Lib dems or one of their incarnations have been the second party however we voted quite heavily leave during the referendum. I suspect it might be because it is generally a rural area with lots of farming and of course £350M a week was going to be put into the farming industry.

 

Lots going on

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Population numbers are the ultimate issue. Its what people have fought over since before we were monkeys.

Doubt that?

Then watch insects fight over territory as they have for 100 million years or more.

 

Economics can only go so far although the economics of the UK are wrong on all fronts.

 

The nuclear reactors etc etc should be built by the UK, generating UK jobs and UK skills and with the profits feeding back into the UK.

 

 

I agree with Uncle B - when people had money in their pockets, able to purchase goods and property - you didn't hear too many complaints about migrants. Only when our pockets were hit did that happen.

 

I do think we have to make up our minds though - we either support countries with foreign aid and stop migration - or we stop foreign aid and let migrants in! I truly fail to see the argument that UK citizens can always go and work in other EU countries - if the situation is so dire in those EU countries that their workers are coming here.. why would I want to go to a place paying me less or with conditions worse than in the UK

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I agree with Uncle B - when people had money in their pockets, able to purchase goods and property - you didn't hear too many complaints about migrants. Only when our pockets were hit did that happen.

 

I do think we have to make up our minds though - we either support countries with foreign aid and stop migration - or we stop foreign aid and let migrants in! I truly fail to see the argument that UK citizens can always go and work in other EU countries - if the situation is so dire in those EU countries that their workers are coming here.. why would I want to go to a place paying me less or with conditions worse than in the UK

 

 

Are you looking at like for like?

 

Educated and skilled UK workers go abroad for far better pay and opportunities - just ask doctors and skilled nurses .

 

Most countries have millions of unskilled/unemployed workers with inferior benefits systems.

All our government needed to do was make it Law that for ANYONE to get benefits, you either had to have lived in the country for at least 5 years, or be a dependent of someone who had lived here for 5 years,

Just as other countries limit the benefits or require everyone to have private insurance

(Over simplified but I'm sure you get the drift)

 

- oh and of course change the system to only pay benefits for children of the above domiciled in this country

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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EU before UK says USA

 

http://www.fxncc.com/16837

 

 

as does India

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

EU before UK says USA

 

http://www.fxncc.com/16837

 

 

as does India

 

As you have said before.

 

No such thing as free trade. Trade agreements come with conditions.

 

Governments serve business interests first and the voting public come second. Of course US politicians will do trade deals with countries or trade areas with populations of more than 65 million. The UK has done well because it is part of the EU consumer market of 500 million people. The UK on its own with a population of 65 million is less attractive. And restricting population growth means the UK consumer market will grow more slowly and be less interesting to trade and invest in.

 

Brexit was supported by mostly older more nostalgic people who believe they can help create the old empire. A Great Britain standing tall in the world and trading with the world. The problem with this nostalgia is that British companies already trade with the world and the EU has not been a barrier. The EU really does not restrict ability of British companies to trade with whoever they want to. Land Rover set up a factory in Brazil to serve the market in South America. City of London is one of the main finance centres in the world, again not restricted by the EU.

We could do with some help from you.

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47 days left.. I think I might enter a retreat or something !

 

 

Sorry - wrong thread :(

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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47 days left.. I think I might enter a retreat or something !

 

 

Sorry - wrong thread :(

 

Perhaps not. The election could change our world including this topic if we change those in power.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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  • 2 weeks later...

What May doesnt want you to know about the Brexit negotiations

 

"Last Wednesday, April 25th, May met the President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, for dinner in London. Senior members of the British and EU negotiating teams were also present.

The dinner was a total disaster. But just how badly it went, at least from the European Commission’s point of view, has only just been revealed."

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/#b3ad574f046f

 

(May wanted to keep the UK electorate in the dark about the negotiations)

 

"May wanted to work through the Brexit talks in monthly, 4-day blocks; all confidential until the end of the process.

Commission said impossible to reconcile this with need to square off member states & European Parliament, so documents must be published.

 

 

"May's reference to the JHA (justice and home affairs) opt-outs set off alarm signals for the EU side. This was what they had feared. I.e., as home sec May opted out of EU measures (playing to UK audience) then opted back in,

and wrongly thinks she can do same with Brexit."

  • Haha 1

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

Link to post
Share on other sites

So is May so stupid she thinks she can negotiate a Brexit to placate some then quietly rejoin in either part of full as soon as we leave?

 

If she does she really is the most incredibly stupid woman

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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it seems Kim Jong-May seems to be in a delusion of grandeur. it seems to be getting worse...

she must have been after the position as pm for some time (hence her quietness re the exit ref, hedging her bets), now doing the snap to get her mandate to do as she wants?

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