Hi

I have used this website in the past with another problem I had and found some great advice so thought id try again.

I sold a phone on Ebay 6 months ago for circa £500. The phone was paid for, sent, tracked and signed for by the buyer. I withdrew the cash and assumed all was fine.

Now 6 months later with no correspondence from ebay, paypal or the buyer, I am getting debt collectors letters (AFS) requesting me to pay the negative balance in my palpal account circa £500. I am not sure what to do. The item was tracked and signed for (as can be seen on my paypal account). Now Paypal seem to have re-funded the buyer who now has the cash and phone with me having a negative paypal balance. I have no idea what has happened or what my next steps should be.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Pat

Hi and welcome to CAG

Were you not informed of any dispute via Ebay or Paypal? If not, go check your account on Ebay to see if anything has been mentioned. If not, contact Paypal to find out what has happened.

It would seem that the buyer has raised a dispute and without your knowledge, Paypal or Ebay have refunded.

As for the debt collector. I would ignore them for now unless they start getting to you when you should write to them stating that the amount claimed is in dispute and they should back off until this is resolved.

a common [problem]. they bought the phone with a stolen card or later claimed they didn't authorise the transaction. Either way, the money has been refunded and you are stuffed. Dig out the address of the purchaser and report to police as theft/fraud. Probably wont get investigated but if it has happened before they will have a pattern they can follow up on.

Hi Guys

Received the below form Paypal.

'Thank you for contacting PayPal about the negative balance on your account which was caused by the filing of a chargeback.

With millions of transactions happening around the world every day, it’s inevitable that a few will be questioned by some customers. A chargeback occurs when a cardholder contacts their card issuer to dispute a transaction on their statement. This could be due to inaccurate or incomplete transaction information, a processing error, or fraud. This chargeback was requested by the issuer of the credit card used to make the payment and we are legally obliged to refund this money to the card issuer once notified.

Anyone who accepts credit card payments may encounter a chargeback, just as sellers accepting personal cheques can receive an occasional bad cheque. Chargeback’s are an unfortunate cost of doing business and most sellers factor this cost into their business plans.

When you opened your PayPal account, you indicated that you had read and agreed to the terms contained in our User Agreement (Clause 4.3 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims). PayPal has abided by its User Agreement and polices and have conformed with all associated laws to the best of our ability and will continue to do so.

We regret this has happened, however as PayPal has a mandatory obligation to make this payment to the credit card company, we must now ask that you repay this amount into your PayPal account.

It’s very important that you add money to your PayPal account balance to address this urgently. Restoring your balance will return your account to good standing and allow you to continue using PayPal. If you don’t restore your balance, your PayPal account's functionality may become limited and the issue may be passed to a collections agency.

To add money: Etc'

Not sure what else to do, I assumed that I would be protected under their own seller protection however it seems not. Do you have any further advice? I also cant afford to fork out almost £500 right before Christmas. I'm not sure what to do.

Thanks

Patrick

I would raise a Formal Dispute with Paypal as it seems they have refunded without investigation however, they are not known for being pro-active.

Depending on what the buyer is saying, you can prove an item was posted, delivered and signed for. Chances are the buyer is saying their account was compromised however, if the address posted to is the same as their Ebay account, that won't wash. If the buyer is saying the box was empty, you can check the weight of the parcel if you still have the receipt from the post office.

As for the debt collector, they can do nothing to you except send more letters. I would ensure you de- link any account with Paypal and if you can remove card details just in case they try to take the money

Thanks for the fast reply.

From correspondence with AFS (debt collectors) it seems as though they are confirming it was a fraudulent claim.

Would you suggest ignoring further correspondence from AFS? Can they enforce or would I need to go to court first? Just worried about the whole situation. Would you suggest paying it?

Thanks

Pat

Did you send the phone to the PayPal verified address?

If so, the buyer is playing dirty with you.

I would contact PayPal and request the name of the bank that applied the chargeback, transaction number, date and time.

Then armed with these info, contact the buyer's bank and expose the sc@m.

Give them the police or action fraud reference number.

If they don't investigate, you will have to insist with action fraud or take the buyer to court.

Tell PayPal that your negative balance is in dispute because fraud took place, so they should just hold on (most likely they won't, but at least you have something in writing.

Now that I know that clause in PayPal t&c, I will never use it again as a seller.

Unless AFS has bought the debt from Paypal, completely ignore them. Generally AFS act for their 'client' meaning that Paypal would have to take action against you but as far as I am aware, they don't. You are the victim as much as Paypal

I'm very surprised that paypal and Ebay haven't investigated this properly and they seem to have accepted the word of the buyer which is why I say dispute it.

I will need to check the verified address status. It really is unbelievable. They are offering no advice and insisting on my giving them back £500.

AFS have previously told me to report it to the police and pay as well. So from what Paypal are saying above, sellers aren't protected at all. How would it work if I ignore further correspondence?

Sorry I didn't see the last reply. By dispute what do you mean? Its like hitting my head against a brick wall with Paypal and AFS. Frustrating.

The suggestion to get the police involved is valid as you are a victim. All you would need to do is go to ActionFraud and log the matter and you will be given a crime number to pass on to AFS and PayPal.

With any dispute, it is vital that it is done in writing. It seems you were not informed of the chargeback. Complain about Paypals lack of action in protecting the seller against fraud but read the terms and conditions as well. Companies don't like their terms and conditions challenged in court which is why (I feel) they don't take action through the courts.

I haven't heard from them in a while since I pointed them in the direction of seller protection. I also noted that I could not collate evidence as my account was frozen.

Last correspondence was a couple of months ago, so we are waiting to hear back.

Many thanks