Hi there,

I (like many others) am in the same situation as Ginger

- handed a PCN from ES for parking /stopping in the Spinningfields area.

Letters of complaint / information requests have been ignored,

Gladstones involved and the case referred to County Curt Business Centre.

I'm pretty anxious and have never dealt with anything like this before.

I am seeking some urgent advice as I returned from holiday to find the county court claim and now only have 2 days to respond...

I obviously want to appeal and thinking along the lines of (pls forgive the lack of legal terms etc) :

I am disputing this claim for the following reasons :

1) I have written to ES Parking and their legal representatives (Gladstones) several times to ask for more information and complain about their imposed fines. No acknowledgement or response has been received.

2) No evidence of wrongdoing / an offence being committed has been provided. They have sent me a photo of the front of a car - it is not evidence that an offence is being committed as you can only see the front half of a front end of a car in the photo (not the location or that the car is stopped). In the photo you can clearly see the two hands of the driver at the steering wheel, which suggests that the car was being driven at the time of taking the photo (i.e. not parked).

3) The charge they have applied is excessive, disproportionate and not commercially justifiable. Was £100, then £150, now £227. The original £100 is excessive and the subsequent increases and escalation to court whist ignoring my requests for more information and letters of complaint is wholly wrong.

I suggested to ES parking that the original £100 charge was excessive and outweighs any cost to the landowner

- I have asked for a breakdown of actual costs and subsequent increases.

(No acknowledgment or response received).

4) The photo evidence provided is time-stamped with a different time to that of the alleged offence (the photo was taken at a different time to that of the alleged offence).

Moreover as per point 2 - the photo is not evidence of any offence being committed.

Their letter states that "the 'period of parking' to which the charge relates is the period immediately preceding the incident time" (the photo evidence is taken after the incident time). (the incident time is 12:00, photo is time stamped at 12:03)

5) There was no/insufficient signage on site at the time of the alleged offence.

I have asked ES parking to confirm that there was signage on date of alleged offence - no response received.

There is now signage onsite (months later) however this signage is inadequate as it's too small (roughly A4 size with lot's of very small text written on it), it is difficult to read from any distance and certainly cannot be read from a car, let alone a moving vehicle.

There are no signs or anything to suggest that you are leaving a public road and onto a private one

(the site of alleged offence is Manchester City Centre)

- this is very confusing, perhaps deliberately so.

It is not clear that the signs are referring to the road

- it looks like they are referring to the adjacent pedestrian areas in front of some flats / offices, not that they are referring to the road - which you would assume was a public highway.

6) There were no road markings at the time of the offence to suggest that parking was prohibited (can evidence via google maps).

7) I have a 24/7 365 day a year parking space in my office underground car park at the site of alleged offence (so I have no reason to park outside, when I have a space inside).

This can be evidenced if required.

Does the fact that both drivers hands are at on the wheel in the photo provided suggest that the car was being driven into work car park ? (if indeed the photo was even taken at the site of alleged offence).

8) I have asked ES Parking and their solicitors (Gladstones) for more information to confirm who is the legal landowner and that ES Parking has their authority in this matter and also to confirm that the road where the alleged offence took place is in fact a private road. I have also asked for full details of the alleged offence and how long the car was parked for. No response or acknowledgment received.

It is just not credible or fair that ES Parking can send members of the public a picture of half of the front end a car, showing only that the drivers hands are at the wheel and not the location where the photo was taken or that the car is illegally parked (or even parked at all) and demand payment of £100.

They have not provided any details or evidence :

- Of any offence being committed.

- Details of the offence and how long the car was parked for.

- That the vehicle was on site at the time of offence.

- That they have authority from the landowner to pursue costs.

- That actual costs to the landowner have occurred.

- That the site of alleged offence is not a public highway.

- In addition the time of offence is not the time the photo was taken.

With the above points in mind,

you write back to ES Parking to ask for more information and to contest their parking charge,

they ignore you and ramp the costs up to £125,

a further letter from you is ignored and then costs ramped up again to £150,

you write again, which they ignore and then escalate the matter to a court.

I believe that this demonstrates that ES Parking are operating in an aggressive, predatory and disproportionate manner which is designed to bully and intimidate innocent members of the public in order for them to obtain money.

Are points 2 and 4 valid ?

I'm (very obviously) a lay person

but I'm hoping these are important from a legal perspective.

Would really appreciate any help and guidance you can offer

- thanks so much Roo

can you please fill this out

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

thank you.

Thanks dx - here you go :

Name of the Claimant :

ES Parking Enforcement Limited

Date of issue :

12th Sept 16

Key dates :

Acknowledgment required by the 1st Oct (I have acknowledged claim today - 27th Sept), defence required by the 15th Oct.

What is the claim for / verbatim particulars of claim :

Total due : £150

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

The claimant claims the sum of £152 for parking charges and indemnity costs if applicable including interest of £2.07 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Court Act 1984 Rate 8.00% from dates above to 05/09/16 Same rate to Judgement or (sooner) payment Daily rate to Judgement £0.03 Total debt and interest £152.07

What is the value of the claim?

Claim : £152.07

Court fee :£25

Legal representation costs : £50

Total amount : £227.07

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ?

Original creditor (ES Parking is claimant)

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

N/A

ok great thanks

so no rush..why did you say only had 2 days to respond??

just be mindful that your defence date was one day out

33 days in total, whereby claimform date is ONE in the count.

now I know you've entered into lots if letter tennis by the looks of things..

but

have you actually sent a CPR 31:14 to the sols yet?

At first I didn't realise I could acknowlede first and propose a defence at a later stage - little bit of panic set in !

Ah ok, thanks - I had counted claim date as day zero, not day one.

Yeah - there's been letter tennis

but they've never responded or acknowledged any of mine.

I havn't done the CRP 31:14 as only found out today that I had a court claim against me

- having read a couple of Threads around ES

- is there any point in sending this as they will decline the request or completely ignore (as per my other letters) ?

Guess it won't do any harm though - what do you think ?

Thanks

PS - do you think points 2 and 4 of my defence are valid arguements ?

yes send it to gladdy's

but CHAGNE THE NAMES IN THIS

[Your address]

.

[Their address]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the claim form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in their own name.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

3. the contract between VCS and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,

4.copies of

a.the notice to driver,

b.notice to keeper and any other correspondence from VCS or Gladstones to the defendant.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME do not sign IT

....................

don't worry about your defence yet.

if they don't reply

then we'll deal

Should I change VCS to ES Parking ? (Or does VCS refer to something else?)

Also, if we assume that they do send me all this stuff

(and invoice me / increase claim cost)

what will I do with all that information ?

Or is this just a tactic to show the court that they've not provided relevant info for me to make an informed decision ?

Cheers

no as I said you need to change it to your players!!

how can they invoice you for anything???

where are you getting all these wild ideas from??

if they cant or wont prove their claim that they

own the land

so thus can issue Parking tickets

then their whole claim fails.

I notice too you've called it a fine

its not a fine its a speculative invoice

and thus a speculative claim

hoping for a default undefended judgement..

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

Sorry, I'm a novice here - isn't this saying I will pick up costs incurred ?

Thanks

doesn't happen just a std text

Reasonable copying costs means the amount you would be charged if you fed the document into a photocopier at your local library, etc. Nothing major!

Thanks - have submitted the CPR 31:14 today.....

The initial defence I submitted Roobear was a skeleton defence,

just bullet points

(especially as I managed to lock myself out of my MCOL account, and had to fill in the hard copy they sent me!).

I wouldn't worry about putting too much in this defence,

just the main points.

Mine was

1. When initial PCN received the defendant immediately replied and sought clarification of key points pertaining to the charge, including clarifying their contract with the landholder that demonstrated that they had authority to both issue parking charges and litigate. The Claimant ignored this letter, and instead said it had rejected an appeal which had not been started.

2. The charge issued was not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

3. Setting down does not constitute parking.

4. Any purported contract would be with the landowner, not ES Parking.

5. Inconsistent road markings, and poor signage mean no contract was entered into.

6. No signs displayed at the entrance to Gartside Street warning of private parking being in operation on the road.

Thanks a lot Ginger, appreciate the advice

might be prudent to post that defence on your thread too ginger....

ginger, fortget point 2- Beavis made it irrelevant in most cases. Point 4 relies on lack of authority and Landowner can grant this, however you can use this if parking co have failed to provide evidence such a contract exists by way of CPR 31.14 request.

Es cannot answer some of your points though, and as for planning permission- hope you have got the response from council or can copy someone else's verbatim and give time and date of that response.

Hi guys, brief update...

Same experience as NW IT and Ginger so far, ESP & Gladdys requested for hearing to be on paper - I've returned all my forms to the court and objected to the on paper hearing - only sent last week so haven't heard anything back yet.

One thing that did make me chuckle though, Gladdys responded via email to my online MCOL defence at 9:02am (was submitted at 3pm day before) stating that their client intends to proceed and attaching copies of their Directions Questionnaire, just shows how much "careful consideration" went into that decision !

ES got stuffed at a hearing last week so keep an eye on the parking pranksters blog and learn what you can fromit. You can contact the court and ask for the details of the hearing- ie ES v XX claim no !"£$Y%^Q and then say that your is the same place so you wish for the claim to be taken as a specimen claim for yours and others