In 2012 my father received a demand letter from a company called Mackenzie Hall saying that they were collecting a debt acquired from the Lending Stream.

He had no recollection of any kind of contact with either company or even a need to use this form of borrowing.

He was 77 years old at the time and not in the best of health and housebound unless others took him out.

MH were dealt with through correspondence asking for copies of agreements and proof of any transactions which they could not do so. They could only provide so called figures of the original amount, payments made and interest applied.

I also contacted the police in case any fraud had been committed obtaining a crime number.

I checked all his bank records and no transactions matching or resembled any of this or any of the companies involved.

I provided all of this to MH and that the next step would be to involve the police further and my father’s local MP.

He received nothing again after that last letter over 4 years ago.

This week he called me at work in a right state saying that he has received another letter from a company called Asset Collections and Investigations Ltd referring to a fixed sum loan of £575 from the Lending Stream dated 03/08/2012.

Which has now been assigned to them with effect from 22 August 2016 with all its rights, title, interest and benefits in and to the assigned documents and the debt.

Quoting a client ref number, balance of £1672.00 their ref number and a PIN number

Paragraph about debt has been registered with various agencies.

To avoid further collection activity and potential legal action, please contact us no later then noon 02/09/2016.

We will be happy to discuss an affordable repayment plan.

We would also like to discuss the possibility of a reduced settlement payment to clear your account.

Collections Department

I would appreciate your advice as to next steps as I really concerned that this could tip my father over the edge, if they start sending letters like MH did.

Best regards

KDA2016

send asset the crime number and a very brief resume of the debt

stating please don't both a 75yrrs old pensioner again

Hi and welcome to CAG.

The first thing to do is to get your fathers credit files. You could pay for the statutory report or go to Noddle or Clearscore which are free. If the debts are listed there then that on its own is ground for complaint. It will also show who the creditor is, either Lending Stream or a new owner name if the debt has been sold.

If you are brave enough, ring them and then get your father to let them talk to you. Record the call. You do not need to tell them this. If you are not into that, a letter of complaint is the other option demanding they remove is details as h is not the debtor in question. If they persist in this case you will treat it as harassment and make a police report as well as escalating the matter to the Financial Ombudsman. If there is anything bad on his credit file, you want them removed and if they refuse, include that in the FOS complaint.

It may just be that your father has been subject to ID fraud in the past so if you can remember the crime number from that time, include that. The credit file check may just show up some other erroneous entries.

OK Many thanks for the advice.

I registered with one of those you mentioned.

The credit file and score is fine all positive and no defaults.

He has no active credit agreements or credit cards which I would expect

and certainly no dealings with these companies but will monitor.

I will draft a letter for him to say something along the lines that this has been pursued before and was unfounded as confirmed and proved by bank records and no evidence of any agreements.

It was logged with the police and further action with the police and local MP involvement was planned if the matter was not dropped. Added to the fact of harassing an old man who is now in his 80's stinks!

Any changes / tweaks on this I would gladly take your CAG members advice.

Thank you

short and sweet mind

don't waffle.

dx

As the debt is not on his credit file, ACIL must have the wrong person. If it was he they were after, the default would still be showing as it stays there for 6 years.

These companies have an obligation to check who they are after before contact, NOT after so irrespective of what they do, a complaint needs to be fully resolved and if you feel some 'gesture of goodwill' is required, go after that as well.

Ok cheers.

DX - The reply will be to the point and no waffle or if you have a draft reply i'll take it.....should I mention name of previous DC?

Silverfox - I will make reference to clean file from years ago and today.

I am also totting up time wasted to date on this and upset on the old fella, he is now 81 years old. So will make that point also.

On a positive point I have purchased the kindle CAG survival guide and will advise others I know to purchase it....regards KDA2016

KDA

Can we be clear which agency you registered with?

Theres a reason I ask...

yes it was Clearscore.....

Fko-Filee is this a problem regarding the credit agency as I want to send letter tomorrow....thanks and regards KDA2016

Fko-Filee is this a problem regarding the credit agency as I want to send letter tomorrow....thanks and regards KDA2016

Hi I would like to send the letter tomorrow. Is there a concern about the information from this credit agency please?

Hi I would like to send the letter tomorrow. Is there a concern about the information from this credit agency please?

Think what they are driving at is that these free credit file checks are not always up to date. If you check negative reviews on Trust pilot, people have found information is 2 or 3 months out of date.

But given that this debt being chased has existed for sometime, it should have been on a credit record of the correct debtor years ago and have been updated. The fact that there is nothing showing, means they have probably just written out to the wrong person following a general trace.

Send the letter based on what you know now. But it might be worth keeping an eye on credit record, just in case the debt appears later.

Unclebulgaria67 many thanks I will get the letter off as planned and will keep an eye on the record...regards KDA2016

Hello unclebulgaria67 and all.....a reply has been received,

saying that thank you for your letter but we were unaware of MH early involvement so we are therefore putting the account on hold whilst we discuss further with the L.S and we will come back to you..

This second letter has triggered further events on his health and his doctor has urgently requested that I attend an appointment with him this coming Friday...

I have also checked his credit record today and it is still totally clear.....

Update and help please my father is now over 81 years old and we are doing the best to keep him in his own home by proving he is ok to be there however this situation is really pushing him over the edge

I have now found all the original documentation from 4 years ago when Mackenzie Hall were chasing this for the L.S.

My father has now received a follow letter from the latest chasers to say the following..

I refer to the letter I sent you on the 12th September regarding the above account.

I am attaching a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement with the L.S for your perusal and retention.

I have been in touch with The L.S and they have advised that you call them directly on 02035647028 to discuss your account with the directly.

in the meantime , I shall place your account on hold for 30 days whilst we await an update from L.S.

should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on 01698907055.

The documentation is the same copy from 4 years ago...no signature or any proof of anything

I have checked his credit report again and it is clear....his bank account has nothing as it did 4 years ago.

Do I just send the same sort of response back I did 4 years ago to the compliance manager of MH but now to this new client quoting the OFT guidance on debt collection 2003/2012 or has it changed please?

I would appreciate your advice best regards KDA2016

Who is chasing now?

Does the CCA received indicate that this loan was in your fathers name ?

If the CCA does show this,

i would be tempted to write to LS to find out more information.

I would not phone them.

If you write to them, ask where the loan money was sent ?

Was it a cheque or Credit to a bank account.

If it was a cheque, what date was this sent and to what address ?

If it was a credit processed to an account, the Bank account and sort code that it was transfered to.

If they provide this, then you can find out from your fathers Bank records whether this was showing on his account.

First of all, did you raise his as a Formal Complaint? Was the letter headed as such?

With the CCA, does it show any name and address on it? Was it taken out online? This would show by having a tick box rather than a space for a signature.

I believe the DCA are delaying tactics by placing the account on hold. If you did complain and when it comes to the end of the 8 week resolution period, you can go straight to the Ombudsman.

As UB mentions, they should be able to show what account number the funds were paid into and whether any repayments were made.

Thank you for your responses and apologies for the delay in responding but I have had to spend sometime after work with my father and when its a 60 mile round trip each time it is challenging.

I am noting all the time that is being spent on this matter.

in answer to your questions

I haven't made a formal complaint as yet but have found the previous documentation from 2012 / 2013 where he did so will use some of the previous text.

The CCA is the same as the previous time and has no signature and no tick box, he certainly has never had any access to a computer.

There are certainly no reference to a cheque, bank account details or any payments.

in 2012 / 2013 a compliant letter went to the compliance manager of MH requesting details of bank account the debt was supposed to be linked to but nothing was forthcoming...

His bank records were checked at the time and no deposits through either a cheque or bank transactions had been made.

The records have been checked again and there is nothing.

His credit record is fine and his credit score is within the top 15% ranking.

The last letter sent to MH/LS in 2012 / 2013 denied any liability of knowledge of the debt

The OFT guidance on debt collecting was quoted and any doorstep collection would result in the police being called.

Age and medical condition discrimination was also noted and in the interests of responsible lending to a 77 year old, he is now 81?!

They were als asked to produce the last 4 digits of the payee bank and the last 4 digits of the so called account the loan was to be repaid.

It was also stated that if action didn't cease that the police, local MP and media would be consulted.

If I remember I also looked at the local trading standards people to MH at the time as another possibility.

Hope that explains where we were and now with the current DC.

I would like to get the letter off in the next couple of days if possible thank you

What I would suggest you do is to draft a letter for your father to sign giving you authority to act on his behalf and demand they write to you at your address. Enclose a copy of that authorisation alongside your letter of complaint to Asset Collection and Investigations (oxymoron there).

The basis of your complaint is that they are chasing the wrong person and as such any further communication sent to your father will be met with a complaint to the police for harassment. (the police are likely to say this is a civil matter)

Every letter should be sent by Signed For Delivery as Asset cannot say they didn't receive them. Get proof of delivery. Eight weeks after the complaint has gone in and had no resolution, you can escalate to the Financial Ombudsman.

Just one other point. I am sceptical of the ethics of some companies so when your father signs the letter of authority, either add a couple of dots or a slight flourish to his signature. A few years ago, we saw an agreement that had been photoshopped with a persons signature that had nothing to do with the debt.

Another option is to get your Dads MP to write a letter to Asset saying that they are contacting the wrong person about this debt and if they don't stop a complaint will be escalated.

Thank you for your latest advice.

I had a statement signed in 2012 to deal with the original matter then.

A formal complaint sent by recorded delivery was sent last week covering all your points with an emphasis on no proof of payment being proved in 2012/13 and now 2016.

Also harassment of a 81 year old and the impact on his health.

I will try and keep this measured as I can....

We hadn't heard anything from either company since the last time but that is not to say that my father hadn't received anything, as he was still wound up about it all when I asked him if he had received anymore letters or calls.

Sadly he had a heart attack and died on Boxing Day and I cannot believe that this all hasn't contributed to this, originally in 2012 and more recently.

I would appreciate any advice on this as this all cannot be right?

Regards and thanks for advice to date.

KDA

Im so Sorry to hear of your loss. Thats terrible news especially at Xmas too.

As he has now passed, debt dies with the estate even if fraudulent and cant be passed on to another family member directly.

If a debt is outstanding after someone dies, it would need to be paid out after whats left of the estate after funeral costs etc

This is an exceptional case and some of the others who are more versed in this field will need to advise.