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    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Refund fraud at Debenhams


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I used to work at debenhams and was going through (still are) a lot of mental health problems and didn't really know what I was doing.

 

I started doing fake refunds in work and putting them on gift cards (forge) apparently.

 

Rlp sent me a letter asking to pay £1,200 they added on so much!

 

Will debenhams and rlp take me to court if I do not pay?

I cannot afford this I am only 17 and it is always on my mind and stressing me out so much

 

, I don't live at the address they sent the letters to anymore so what will they do?

 

Will they forget and stop?

Or find me or go to the police?

 

The police weren't called when I was caught as they decided to not take police action due to my mental health

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Hi and welcome. I have moved your post to a thread of its own. Please post here and I will delete the others.

 

PM sent.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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I used to work at debenhams and was going through (still are) a lot of mental health problems and didn't really know what I was doing.

 

I started doing fake refunds in work and putting them on gift cards (forge) apparently.

 

Rlp sent me a letter asking to pay £1,200 they added on so much!

 

Will debenhams and rlp take me to court if I do not pay?

I cannot afford this I am only 17 and it is always on my mind and stressing me out so much

 

, I don't live at the address they sent the letters to anymore so what will they do?

 

Will they forget and stop?

Or find me or go to the police?

 

The police weren't called when I was caught as they decided to not take police action due to my mental health

 

Nothing more will happen

Nothing more can happen

 

Forget about it

And go get yourself better

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Employee theft is different to shoplifting as some stores will take an ex employee to court. This is not guaranteed of course but first and foremost, don't pay RLP one penny. If Debenhams want to take court action, that is up to them.

 

As it stands, you are17 and RLP can take no action (not that they ever could) as you are under 18. They should already know this and as such, shouldn't be writing at all.

 

As the police were not involved, there will be nothing on any criminal database

 

If Debenhams did decide to take action against you, they must be able to prove on the balance of probabilities that the amount they are claiming is correct. A civil claim should only put Debenhams back into the position they were in before the theft, no more.

 

As for RLP. Ignore them.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Would debenhams ring me before they took further action? Do you think they will just eventually forget about it and not take action?

 

Doubt they would ring you. If they were going to do more, they would get their solicitor write to you giving you the information you need.

 

RLP are not Debenhams solicitors and as such they can take no action. All they do is send out the begging letters.

 

Hopefully Debenhams will forget about it...eventually. Nobody can say what they may or may not do. What I would do is see your GP to get the help you need and if court action was ever taken, your mental health could be brought up. If you can get the nerve up to tell your GP why you are as you are, they will treat it as confidential and may offer counselling.

 

As you are 17, I'm assuming you live at home with your parents. Do they know?

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As you don't live at the address where the letters are sent, that's a help so long as you have people there who can let you know when a letter arrives.

 

RLP are like dogs with bones. They don't give in quietly. They don't have the facility to trace you so you shouldn't get letters where you are now. Expect quite a few letters from them and when they have exhausted their templates they will pass the matter on to a debt collector. The debt collector is likely to be paid on results so they won't turn up on your doorstep but they will send more letters.

 

I am off to bed soon (yes, I'm old!) but I will be back tomorrow. Try and get some sleep. get an appointment with your GP then start putting things into perspective.

 

The deed is done. There is nothing that can change that. Find out why you did it and that will help you.

RLP can do bugger all to you

Only Debenhams can but they may not bother (which is more likely in my opinion)

 

I have a saying. Don't stress the small stuff. Everything is small stuff.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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did Debenhams sack you for this or any related reason?

If yes, read the dismissal letter carefully and it will say what they intend to do but as you havent mentioned anything I suspect the answer is nothing further.

If not were you invited to resign whilst under investigation?

RLP have nothing to do with anything so they can be safely ignored but if you are still worried then tell us about the last meeting you had with personnel before you left their employment and show us a redacted copy of your final letter and we can offer our thoughts on the matter..

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If no figure was given in the dismissal letter, I can see no reasonable grounds for RLP to be demanding £1200 off you. I suspect that RLP differentiate between shoplifters and employee theft and send out letters accordingly. Most RLP letters sent to shoplifters are about £150-200 whereas employee theft they pick a figure out of the air and send that demand.

 

All you need to remember and one that has been running through this thread is that RLP are nothing! Letters can be intimidating but you need to read them in the context that they are laid out. Scrutinise every sentence as they very rarely say 'will' take court action. Only 'may' or some other wording.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Ignore rlp totally. If you're employer was serious you'd be at the police station by now

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Ignore rlp totally. If you're employer was serious you'd be at the police station by now

Absolutely, RLP have no legal basis to do court, only Debenhams can do that.

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so what did HR say at the disciplinary meeting when you were told you were being acked?

did they indicate that they were going to try and recover their losses?

if they did then RLP still arent in a position to do anything as they have no interest, have suffered no loss them selves and arent your employer.

 

It looks like this is the end of it as far as Debenhams are concerned but I ask the above to have more certainty in this belief

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  • 3 weeks later...

We write in relation to the above matter and further to our letter dated 8th September 2016.

 

It is noted that you have received some inaccurate advice through internet forums.

 

Firstly please note that we are instructed to bring this claim against you as agents of our client Debenhams. Whereas it is true that Debenhams must decide whether or not to bring proceedings against you, as their agent it is our role to advise them on such proceedings and instruct solicitors in relation to this matter. For the avoidance of doubt Debenhams will not contact you personally in relation to this incident.

 

Although you were only 17 years of age at the time of incident this does not mean that civil proceedings cannot be issued against you.

 

It is noted that you have moved address, please provide us with details of this so that we can update our records accordingly. Alternatively we are able to instruct agencies that specialise in tracing individuals, or if necessary proceedings can be served at your last known address.

 

The basis of our client’s claim arises out of breach of contract, namely the employment contract that you held with them. You breached both express and implied terms of this contract when you performed fraudulent refunds onto gift cards, which you later used to make purchases online. Our client is entitled to recover both its financial losses and costs incurred as a direct result of your actions.

 

It is noted that there may be some mitigating circumstances that should be taken into consideration in relation to our client’s claim against you. There is no legal obligation on our client to consider such circumstances however as an ethical company it is prepared to do so. If there is anything you wish our client to consider in relation to this claim, we require you provide us with details and evidence of these circumstances such as a doctors letter.

 

Our client has provided us with a comprehensive file of evidence, including but not limited to CCTV footage, disciplinary notes and data mining of both your refunds and online transactions. Having reviewed this evidence we are confident our client will be able to satisfy the balance of probabilities test, required by civil law in order to secure a judgement against you.

 

We recommend that you seek independent legal advice from a qualified legal professional and not off the internet. Some solicitors offer free consultations and organisations such as the Citizens Advice Bureau also offer free legal advice.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in the next 21 days. Should you choose to ignore our correspondence we will take our client’s instructions on issuing legal proceedings against you.

 

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

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Just goes to show how desperate RLP are. They have scoured the internet and seen your post here and put two and two together. Give me a few minutes to read it properly and respond where needed. It may seem scary but they are just agents. Agents equals powerless

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Should you choose to ignore our correspondence we will take our client’s instructions on issuing legal proceedings against you

 

they may take them, but they cant actually do anything with any instructions..esp with regard court...

 

I notice too that it uses those clever words again..like

claim

proceedings

 

1st sentence is the give away..

Debenhams will not contact you personally

'because they have washed their hands of it...'

 

RLP can push them toward whatever actions..but they wont do anything

 

almost word for word like all the other RLP letters

 

 

ignore!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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We write in relation to the above matter and further to our letter dated 8th September 2016.

 

It is noted that you have received some inaccurate advice through internet forums.

 

Wrong. We have given advice based on our own learnings on the practices of RLP

 

Firstly please note that we are instructed to bring this claim against you as agents of our client Debenhams. Whereas it is true that Debenhams must decide whether or not to bring proceedings against you, as their agent it is our role to advise them on such proceedings and instruct solicitors in relation to this matter. For the avoidance of doubt Debenhams will not contact you personally in relation to this incident.

 

That's fair enough. They have confirmed Debenhams won't contact you. So, they 'could' instruct a solicitor but they would still need Debenhams permission to do so.

 

Although you were only 17 years of age at the time of incident this does not mean that civil proceedings cannot be issued against you.

 

Wrong again. To begin a civil claim, the respondent (you) need to be over 18

It is noted that you have moved address, please provide us with details of this so that we can update our records accordingly. Alternatively we are able to instruct agencies that specialise in tracing individuals, or if necessary proceedings can be served at your last known address.

 

ERR! No! Why make their job easier for them. They just want your current address to harass you even more

 

The basis of our client’s claim arises out of breach of contract, namely the employment contract that you held with them. You breached both express and implied terms of this contract when you performed fraudulent refunds onto gift cards, which you later used to make purchases online. Our client is entitled to recover both its financial losses and costs incurred as a direct result of your actions.

 

It is noted that there may be some mitigating circumstances that should be taken into consideration in relation to our client’s claim against you. There is no legal obligation on our client to consider such circumstances however as an ethical ( Cough splutter) company it is prepared to do so. If there is anything you wish our client to consider in relation to this claim, we require you provide us with details and evidence of these circumstances such as a doctors letter.

 

While I have seen a few cases where they have accepted that the person involved did have a mental health condition and they decided not to proceed further, this is rare.

Our client has provided us with a comprehensive file of evidence, including but not limited to CCTV footage, disciplinary notes and data mining of both your refunds and online transactions. Having reviewed this evidence we are confident our client will be able to satisfy the balance of probabilities test, required by civil law in order to secure a judgement against you.

 

Yes they could and if Debenhams decided to do so, they would have to quantify the amount with proof. As I have explained before, employee theft is different to shoplifting cases and court action might be instigated but they must be sure of the figures before they do so as they are not allowed to profit from your actions, only put them back into the position they were in before the incidents occurred

 

We recommend that you seek independent legal advice from a qualified legal professional and not off the internet. Some solicitors offer free consultations and organisations such as the Citizens Advice Bureau also offer free legal advice.

 

The CAB did an article a few years back where thy were very critical of RLP and they also helped in one case where two teenagers were sued by the retailer. The retailer lost. No wonder they wanted anonymity.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in the next 21 days. Should you choose to ignore our correspondence we will take our client’s instructions on issuing legal proceedings against you.

 

They can look as far forward as they wish. The only time to be worried is if a 'real' solicitor (NOT RLP) sends you letters threatening recovery action.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

I have left my comments in red. If RLP believe I am wrong, I would invite them to contact admin for the right of reply. We'll see.

 

Dependant on the value of the amount stolen, Debenhams may just bite the bullet and issue and if that happens we can help negotiate that particular path. No one is that good they can predict the future.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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What do you mean they have washed their hands of it? So they definitely won't take any action? Because it is £1200 not like £100?

 

What DX means is that Debenhams have now passed the matter on to RLP so they will have no further contact with you. As I mentioned, if court action were to be considered then a solicitor would be in contact with you, not RLP

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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yep

wouldn't matter if it was £12k...

Debenhams have washed their hands of it..

 

 

I would doubt they have any knowledge RLP are even writing to you.

 

 

their head office in wherever sign a stupid global contract with RLP

I bet it costs them £1000's annually, and I bet

even if a mug were to pay RLP

they don't see a penny of it

but a certain female gets a nice holiday out of the money she fleeces from people

that sadly cough up to them.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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